Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE What is it about LD's and their bodies?

Choc,

I see your wife did a fantabulous job of getting the subject off your issue and onto her issue!

I don’t think she is deliberately trying to be diversionary or coming up with excuses. These are genuinely her important issues, but it doesn’t make yours any less important.

Here’s the deal. When she starts to bring up her issues, acknowledge that it is something valid that needs to be talked about, but not at the cost of your issues. Don’t get into the nitty-gritty right away. Ask her if she would like to schedule equal time to discuss your issues and her issues. If she wants to go first, fine. But your turn must come, and don’t let her get off the subject.

Ask her where you lie on her list of priorities. Granted she is overwhelmed by the kids and house and chaos, but she has to make a conscious decision to put you on her ‘to-do’ list. For your part, you can ask her what specific things she would like help with, and then hold up your end of it. BUT this must be done simultaneously with her efforts to improve your SL.

Step back and try to keep the first conversation on a bigger picture level. The details can be worked out later.

This worked for us. However, one thing we had going for us is that my H is the normally calm and centered one, and I was (note: getting better) the overwhelmed, screaming one. Obviously, I had a great deal of motivation to learn to HOM when we had the first few tough conversations. If your wife isn’t willing or able to center herself while talking to you, its going to be a lot tougher.

Julie

Choc,

Actually...no you don't. My friend and her H were definitely not in sync, still aren't....but her kids now listen and do what is asked because they know Mom WILL enforce the consequences regardless. You make it clear to your children, that even if Mom caves...they will still have to deal with YOU, because YOU will enforce consequences. YOU still need to take the stand of enforcer, true...but they will learn that there are STILL consequences for their actions.

My guess is that sure, it's going to be a real big pain initially, your W will probably think you are being a hard ass...but this will payoff.

GEL

Choc,

Yes we are of one mind. I think of it in terms of crowd control. We don't always agree but we always agree in front of them when it comes to discipline. It is difficult when you can't agree. Maybe, Mrs would understand that enforcement is important just so she isn't always overwhelmed. Your enforcement of kids taking responsibily is a huge act of service.

Karen

Karen,

Being of one mind is of course the best way to be on this if at all possible...but not absolutely necessary As I stated with my friends example...her H always caves. But her kids know that they will still have to deal with her if they choose to not do their chores, even if dad said it was ok. The fortunate thing is that they now listen to and respond to their Mom, but don't have much respect for dad.

GEL

Julie,

Good advice; I will try to handle it this way the next time we have "The Talk." I have ALWAYS been frustrated that -- like that Toby Keith song -- she always wants to talk about HER. I don't mind doing it (we do that 98% of the time, anyway), but at these moments I want to have my needs at least discussed, if not solved.

I think the way you suggest would be effective.

thanks,

Choc.

GEL and Karen,

Thanks for the ideas . . . let me "noodle" this. I have for so long treated this as a "black and white" issue -- The Enforcer and The Caver -- and you've made me look at it from a third way. You're saying "no matter what The Caver says, I expect this from you, and you will answer to me on it."

I'm wondering, on the issue of whether or not my W will just see this as my "taking over" and therefore feel even MORE inadequate, if -- the next time she's saying she's overwhelmed -- I just ASK her:

"Honey, I'd like to help, but I haven't wanted to undermine you with the kids, or act like I have all the answers. I do have some ideas, tho -- would you like me to take a crack at it? I'll tell you up front, I'm going to seem like an A$$, but I'm willing if you are."

Choc,

"You're saying "no matter what The Caver says, I expect this from you, and you will answer to me on it."

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying! I mean, no offense intended here...how else are they going to learn to respect you if you don't enforce the rules? Right now what they're learning is they don't have to respect you.

And I have a feeling your W is probably not going to be partial to this idea because I suspect she may be using this as an excuse or a crutch to be too tired etc. for you.

So someone may shoot me down on this, but if she says something...I don't know that I'd ask her. Just let her know you have an experiment you'd like to try but you need her cooperation on it for it to really be successful. That way she's involved still and you aren't completely taking over...she's still involved in the process. But I wouldn't ask her...that sounds like you are asking for permission to be a parent to your own kids.

GEL

chocolateeyes:

I have read through this thread an see many things similar to my own sitch, and probably for a lot of other HD husbands. I want to throw out this idea:

All of the problems she lists as reasons for her LD are meaningless. The REAL reason is buried deep within or she has absolutely no idea why her desire is gone.

As for feeling stressed out, she loads up her plate with way too many things that SHE deems to be important. No matter how many things you help to remove from the plate, she will continue to add to that plate. She is INTENTIONALLY making herself stressed out. She wants to be the good mother, NOT THE GOOD LOVER. She KNOWS that she is failing you and I will bet that she is focusing on the children now. They give her love and don't expect much of anything in return.

So what to do with a women that has no clue as to why they are LD, and has little motivation to actually WORK on the problem? I don't know. LD's eventuially must do something to change, and yet nobody knows what that is or how to do it. I know that I am at a loss on this. But change by the LD is REQUIRED to solve this problem. If they can not change, then eventually us HD men must basically change our relationship with them and bascially write them off, and end up treating them only as friends.

CeMar,

Although I am perhaps a notch or two to the left of you on the "Cynical Scale," I share your main belief that any meaningful, PERMANENT change in the sexual dynamics of the relationship is ONLY possible when BOTH spouses:

a) realize there is a problem;
b) are willing to confront the problem;
c) are willing to compromise to SOLVE the problem.

I think there is some shorter-term, "fits and spurts" successes out there in couples where only one partner is applying the concepts, but I have yet to see any evidence of permanent change unless BOTH people (like the NOPs) are willing.

It's like that old joke:

"How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?"

A: "Only one; but the light bulb has to really WANT to change."

I also see SSM, PM and some of the other principles applied on this Board as being useful for the individual in helping them DEAL with the clashing libido sitch; not so much for actually solving it. The "de-fusion" and "Holding onto Myself" are good coping mechanisms, I think, but I don't see them leading to permanent, meaningful change when only one spouse is trying.

I would disagree with you on one thing. The mentality of this type of "superMom/superWoman" person is such that I would say that she wants to be BOTH the Super Mom and the Super Wife. It's just that the kids are FAR less forgiving than I am, and not as willing to back down from the daily battles. So it ends up being a "path of least resistance thing." Her thought process is more along the lines of:

"I know what he wants from me, and I know all of the things the kids need and want from me. And I can't possibly do them all. Chocolateeyes is a great an understanding guy, and doesn't seem to fight me too much anymore on this, so I'll just do "A, B and C" for the kids right now, and maybe -- soon -- he and I can get back on track."

Choc.

Choc.
I think you hit it right on the head with the Super Mom/Wife comment. I've often been able to be one or the other, but not both. I just do not have the energy that it takes to be both. I am sure that there are many women out there who do, and my suburban hat is off to them. Maybe it is a question of limited resources.