This is such a heartfelt post and something in it makes me want to reach out to you. You say that your wife at one point made some heartfelt changes, but reverted back to being LD. I would guess that she was LD all along, and reverted back to not trying anymore. That being said – what was the reason she stopped trying?
Did she slip back into old behaviors because she got more comfortable and forgot about the changes she was trying to make? Or did she hope that the issue would go away? If that is the case, it is your responsibility to keep the issue in the forefront. Or to redraw a boundary.
Was it because she was resentful that there were issues of hers not being addressed in return?
Was it because, having given it her best, you let her know that it wasn’t enough or that you didn’t want what she had to offer?
Sure, she feels pressure. Only she can rise above the pressure. However, something has to motivate her to rise above the pressure, and there must be clues to her motivations in the conversations you have had over the years.
Julie
Julie,
Thanks for your kind response. Since my wife was definitely the HD partner during the first two years of our marriage (she used to climb on top of me in bed, and say "C'mon, you don't REALLY want to go to SLEEP now, do you???"), and also temporarily each time I HAVE reached the end of my rope, I can only assume that there's an HD girl in there somewhere.
Julie, I have wracked my brain -- and even prayed -- for wisdom as to why this "epiphany" soon faded, after SUCH an intense conversion. If I had to guess, from the choices you presented, I've have to say it was probably "Did she slip back into old behaviors because she got more comfortable and forgot about the changes she was trying to make?" with a little bit of the following thrown in:
I think I maybe overwhelmed her. A hungry man -- a starving man -- once he finds food, probably forgets his table manners a little bit. I was SOOOOO happy, and SOOOO horny, that perhaps I scared her off? I do think us HDs sometimes make the LDs think "no matter how much I give him/her, I can never do enough to make him/her happy." I never SAID that, mind you; I would only say "you've made me so happy" and "I really enjoyed last nite" and things like that, but I know my wife's personality and she tends to "project", and worry, and get overwhelmed easily.
I wish I knew. I've wished that I could go BACK to that glorious six weeks, and do SOMETHING differently again. I tried to get her to talk about it back then, about what it was that made her realize that changes needed to be made, why she had avoided me for so long, etc. Like another poster here (I'm sorry, I forget which one of you guys it was), I wanted to KNOW, so that I could do the positive things again that she was now responding to, or NOT DO the negative things that perhaps I had done that had been pushing her away.
No luck; she HATES talking about such things, and would only say things like "I don't want to talk about it anymore; let's just focus on the future."
The thing she DID say, more than once, was that she FELT herself moving away. She knew the R wasn't right, but -- as a sort of defense mechanism -- she would move away even FURTHER to help her cope with the guilt. I'd LIKE to say that that's "whacked," but I myself like to listen to sad, depressing songs when I'm feeling down, so that I pull myself WAAAYYYY down, so who am I to judge?
I don't know why I didn't enforce it. I guess some combination of sympathy (I could see how "unnatural" this had become to her over the years), pride ("Why should I have to BEG for affection from my wife, especially when I do so many things for HER??") and plain old-fashioned chicken$hit-ness. (she gets really loud and insane when we fight)
But of course, I know you're right. That was the time to call her on it, and to keep pushing along. I have this tendency to fight, fight, fight for something... and then give up with a "wtf" mentality and pout.
I went for the POSITIVE reinforcement, but didn't back it up with the TOUGH LOVE boundary enforcement when she slacked off. And now I don't know how to ever get back to that place.
Choc.
Used to Be
August, 2003
Warm springtime Saturdays Spent sweating in the sun Sweet afternoon romance Newlywed fun
The Boss is singin’ Nebraska Thunder’s clapping outside Dark clouds are rolling in But we’re happy inside
That’s how it used to be Oh, it used to be So young and so innocent So wild and so free Didn’t have half as much As we’re trapped by right now But somehow I think that we were rich And I’m wondering how I can get back, Gotta get back To where we used to be.
Years passed and duty called Places we had to be Still sometimes we’d steal away You’d be so tender to me
Somewhere I noticed it changing, It was there behind your eyes I don’t know when it happened, But in the darkness I’d cry
For what used to be Just how it used to be So loving and tender I knew it’s where you wanted to be Hell, we didn’t know anything But one thing we knew Was just you and me Oh baby can I take you back Gotta get us back To where we used to be
So blessed in so many ways, Lord I hate to complain Maybe I’m the one who missed it And caused us this pain Maybe I can I make it right And we’ll be happy again And then I’ll take you back God help me get us back To where we used to be
Where we used to be Baby, we used to be I would give anything To be that young and that free Can’t think of anything I’ve surrounded myself with Can’t think of anything That I wouldn’t give
To find that used to be That precious used to be Please don’t turn away from me Come back to that used to be.
Choc, That was kinda my whole point. When she stopped her epiphany, what she essentially did was to throw the ball back in your court. Since that time, you've been sitting there with the rotting ball in your hands, listening to sad songs. (btw, I too listen to sad songs when I'm down..or anytime..I just like sad songs for some reason)
I think she is beginning to wonder why you're holding on to the old ball and why you no longer care enough to throw it back to her.
I believe you could re-open the convo by saying, I should have done and said this 4 years ago at that time. I didn't because of sympathy, pride and chickensh*tness. I'm sorry I let that get in the way of having a happy marriage. I do believe that is a goal that both of us share. I want to get back to having a rockin sex life and I'd like to know what you are willing to do to help me get there.
Then put on your armor and settle in for a battle.
You know, I HATE having to reinforce my boundaries. I hate it. But it's not much of a boundary if I don't do that. So it is about my OWN self respect just as much as it is about him.
Quote: Then put on your armor and settle in for a battle.
I guess that's just it ... I haven't been up for a battle. When I'm ready, I'll know what to do -- this board and PM and SSM have helped me a lot. For now, I'm content most of the time and truly happy sometimes. There are only a few days when I get really angry or sad.
That is a lovely song, you are quite the poet. You know you can never recapture those times, right? You can never get back to something you had in the past. But you can learn from the past and move on to the future.
It is quite possible that you scared her off. This is a big deal with my husband. He felt that I would always want more , no matter how much he gave. The solution lies in finding a happy middle ground. Finding this middle ground might take some hard negotiating. It turned out that our desired frequency was pretty close – we agreed on once or twice a week. Literally, this means that we will have sex no less than once a week or no more than twice a week. He will initiate no less than once a week, if I lie back and do nothing. I will initiate no more than twice a week, even if I want it more (it helps that I generally don’t). We have both kept our promise to each other and to ourselves. It is really not as clinical or unromantic as it sounds, and, over time, it has led to mutual respect and trust. He trusts that I am not insatiable, and I trust that he will not leave me high and dry (pun unintended, but befitting, eh?)
For my part, sticking to this has required that I work hard on self-soothing through my own feelings of insecurity. Every HD knows what those feelings of insecurity are, and the questions that arise in our heads. Is he only doing this out of duty? Is he really into it? What is he thinking about? Should I withdraw and see how hard he will pursue me? Did he look at porn today? If he really does want this, why did he wait a week? Am I a fool for wanting someone who does not want me? Why does this have to be so complicated? And so on…
These were my thoughts early on in the process, and it was very hard not to let those thoughts filter into the lovemaking. Somewhere along the line, I ‘got it,’ things clicked, and now I rarely have these doubts.
In the beginning, self-restraint also involved not talking about it a lot. For example, telling him “I really enjoyed last night.” He hated that kind of stuff, so I just stopped it. To my surprise, he was the one who started it back up. He will often ask me the next morning if I counted my Os…arrogant bastard! He will make jokes or ask me out of the blue if I am satisfied in bed. This is who my H really is, but he squelched it because of various dynamics in our relationship. I won’t go into that here, because I don’t want to hijack your hijack of Cemar’s thread.
This is the marriage I have always wanted. He is my lover again. I can express my sexuality freely again. It is woven into our life like never before. It almost takes my breath away.
Why waste any more time? Read your PM again. Take Honeypot’s advice, sit your W down and talk about what you should have talked about 4 years ago.
Choc, when you finally get to the other side, you will see the beauty in the process. There is meaning to the battle and the scars. I hope I will have the opportunity to read the song you write then.
Thanks for the nice note -- again -- and for your concern. There are times when it's nothing short of MOVING to me how much everyone on this Board cares for one another.
And yes, I know I can never go back; that's just the romantic in me speaking in those lyrics.
I'm getting very close. I guess where I'm at is, if my W would do ANYTHING, WHATSOEVER to indicate that she is ready to try to work at this . . . if I could even get a "Honey, what's been bothering you lately?" or "Why don't we ever snuggle anymore?" or I'd even settle for a snotty "Whatever happened to you reading that 'Mars and Venus' book?"... ANYTHING that says she's ready to hold up her end of the kind of ongoing struggle that I see so many of you going thru here....
I'd be up for that. I wouldn't duck it, I would speak honestly, HOM, and begin the process. But I'm not willing to go through all that pain if I'm the only one to whom it is important. For crissakes, she wouldn't even make the FIRST VISIT to the counselor that we agreed to . . . how important can it BE to her??
FWIW...my LDH wouldn't make ANY appointments either, but he would go once they were made.
In fact when it came to making the initial C appointment...it took me getting angry with him over the phone telling him that I just didn't understand what was so damned hard about picking up the phone and making an appt. I thought (at the time) that since he seemed to be the one with the sexual issues that it might be best if he found someone he was comfortable with (I now know how wrong that was.) That if he would just show some initiative I'd be happy to make the appt. for him, but everytime I offered he'd get angry and put up a wall. About 20 minutes after our little blow-up over the phone, which ended w/me in tears (very uncharacteristic for me) he called me back and asked me to make the appointment.
That was the beginning of our R improving.
With my LDH I must take the lead, he will follow...but for some reason he can't yet get up the courage to get the ball rolling....so it's up to me to do it. It's not that he doesn't think I/We/Us is important, or the issues that I've stated are important....he just didn't/doesn't know what to do...so he's stuck in the mode of doing nothing at times. It's as if he's overwhelemed.
I've learned to accept that about him, hopefully someday it will change a bit...but for now I know. If I want something, I must speak up and be clear about it...and be prepared to possibly orchestrate the whole thing, but he will participate if I do this....and usually, now, happily.
Green said.....With my LDH I must take the lead, he will follow...but for some reason he can't yet get up the courage to get the ball rolling....so it's up to me to do it. It's not that he doesn't think I/We/Us is important, or the issues that I've stated are important....he just didn't/doesn't know what to do...so he's stuck in the mode of doing nothing at times. It's as if he's overwhelemed.
That sounds like my husband. He went to the doc one time years ago for his low drive. But I had to make that appointment. That was years ago and he was told his T level was just fine must be stress. He told me a month ago because he was having trouble with erections on and off that he really thought it was time to see a doctor. But that was a month ago and no apppointment is scheduled. He hasn't even talked about it. GRRRR!! Meantime I am fuming. That is how I feel it is HIS problem. It makes me so angry. Because I don't expect him to make my appointments if I needed one. He is like that to when he had a herniated stomach. I had to take him to the doc to get the ball rolling for him to get help. You would think he would be in pain and think man I need to get to the doctor.
I know how you feel, I was SOOOOO frustrated with my H over this. BUT there is something holding him back from doing this...make the offer to make the appointment. You holding in resentment because he won't/hasn't done this, does YOU no good whatsoever.
ED is a very personal thing for men, it can be humiliating, scary, embarrassing...a whole gamet of things. Take the lead.
I experience this too. Women can harden their hearts in a poor relationship. When they feel their relationship is poor, they get FURTHER away, thinking that this will protect themselves. So they start doing things that will actually make the marriage worse. I don't understand why they would do this, but they do.
He will make jokes or ask me out of the blue if I am satisfied in bed. This is who my H really is, but he squelched it because of various dynamics in our relationship. I won’t go into that here, because I don’t want to hijack your hijack of Cemar’s thread. 
That is how I feel it is HIS problem. It makes me so angry. Because I don't expect him to make my appointments if I needed one. He is like that to when he had a herniated stomach. I had to take him to the doc to get the ball rolling for him to get help. You would think he would be in pain and think man I need to get to the doctor.