Right, but it doesn't help matters at all if you heap the extra baggage on her. I think MrsNOP's point is that it took both of you to create the situation as it stands today. It isn't going to get better until you can both clearly feel what the other is feeling. That takes communication and an healthy helping of humility. I think you have to let go of the anger and resentment before you can expect to be able to "walk a mile in her shoes". It wasn't until both MrsGGB and I were able to put on the other's shoes to see how it felt that we were able to make any progress. Once we got to that point though, the progress was incredible. Yes, we still struggle quite a bit, but at least now we have the tools to help each other along.
Thanks for the reply. You aren't in the same fields, but you do both have stressful careers. I remember how stressful the entertainment industry can be, my late finacee was also in that field. I will tell you though how our C described men like my H (and possibly you too) to me...when she told me this, I thought "I couldn't have put it better myself!" Think about this and see if perhaps it may apply to you too...
She described my H as being "emotionally flatlined" on the exterior. Now that doesn't mean he doesn't have emotions, just that on the outside you can't tell what he's feeling...so he appears not to have emotions. For someone like me that can be very difficult. Yes, my H has told me he loves me...but when his actions and exterior expressions don't match the words...it's very confusing. I felt like I was being told he loved me, because he felt he had to...not because he felt it. Do you know what I mean? It was also very difficult because I knew he was a different person at work than what I saw at home. He would talk to me passionately about what he does and what was going on there, but I NEVER heard any passion in his voice about ME.
I can tell you my H has feelings that run quite deep, I know that now, but he's been ver protective of his feelings and hasn't shared them. I also know that he doesn't want to appear "weak" so that has in the past prevented him from showing certain things. He's getting much better at letting some of that leak out every now and then ;-) As a result I can literally "feel" us becoming closer emotionally.
Is it possible that your W has felt emotionally deprived? That, in itself, is enough to make people withdraw...I know I did initially. But I also knew if we were going to work things through I would have to take charge to do it...you are in a slightly different position than I was.
Quote: Empowerment, for me, came in the form of knowledge, understanding and ultimately, self-change. It had very little to do with my H, in fact. The dynamics in our relationship changed forever when I stopped being angry. I was truly able to communicate to him how much pain I was in only when I killed the anger. When I got a grip and stopped blaming him, it became clear that it was nobody’s fault. We were simply in marriage’s natural crucible. However, my years of pain had brought me to the point where I was truthfully able to tell him that I was going down the road of irrevocable change, and if our sexual relationship did not improve, I could not predict which would be the more painful of the two options (sex starved marriage vs end of marriage) for me. He understood that I was not trying to control or threaten, but merely being honest. We sat down and talked about a frequency that was acceptable to us both.
Yes and amen. This is *exactly* what happened in our relationship. NOP has written about Michelle telling him that he had to address his anger. And I have written where this issue became almost a *daily* topic. It was not going to go away. As we moved further into it, NOP managed to strike a note of firm resolve mixed with love and the knowledge that one way or another, he could not continue in our relationship as is. This was not presented in anger, but almost with a sense of grief.
Not always pleasant. Not always peaceful.
But somewhere amid the battle, I think the focus began to switch from fighting *against* each other and toward fighting *for* a marriage that we both could enjoy.
Quote: I can tell you that the LD spouse in my marriage no longer controls the frequency or type of sexual contact. In fact, no one controls anything or anyone. It is not about power. I am still the HD in our marriage, but it feels very different to me now.
This is our experience as well. NOP didn't become LD, I didn't become HD - the reality is, drive levels became a non-issue.
Quote: Because the LD is LD there is little motivation for them to DO something about it...why should they...it's not THEIR problem that their spouse isn't getting enough physical affection/attention.
And my point is that there is something askew MORE than sex drive if the spouse is unmotivated and dismissive of your needs.
what of the "that's just the way I am stance"
I wasn't hungry everytime I fed my child. My motivation to *care* for my child had nothing whatsoever to do with my own hunger or needs. I purchase things at the grocery store that I have no interest in, I have cooked things I don't like, I have hosted gaggles of kids when it filled no social need of mine. I have given medicine to pets when i wasn't sick, I have ferried elderly neighbors around on errands when I had no place I needed to go.
So, if I didn't have the same motivation or the same level of motivation - why was I motivated to do any of the above?
what you're saying here is doing nothing more than adding fuel to the hd's thoughts of rejection and being un-loved by their spouse...after all if they (the ld spouse) did love us wouldn't they make an active attempt?
Something more than having the identical motivation was at work.
Quote:
The HD spouse knows/feels this lack even if everything else in the relationship is wonderful (though how can it be if there is a sense of lacking on one partners side?) the HD spouse is obviously more motivated to DO something to change the sexual dynamic but is left with few choices (1. accept a ssm 2. become LD yourself 3. Leave the m) unless/until the LD spouse DECIDES they'd like to take an active role in the situation.
Or actively, consistantly pursue solutions making every effort to convey to your spouse the high degree of importance involved. That means pushing through the anger and/or depression you feel and accepting the likely possibility that continuing to bring up the issue is going to make things unpleasant for a time. It doesn't mean tentively bringing it up, everyone blowing up in anger, squelching it all back down again for a few weeks/months while it leaks out in a myriad of ways into the marriage, and then exploding in anger or resentment again a few weeks/months down the road.
It means letting the spouse know that this issue is not going to go away. That you want and need them to work with you on it. Their continued refusal to even acknowledge that the *marriage* has a problem much less a lackluster attempt to work at it will destroy the relationship.
Done with firmness. With gentleness. Without anger and resentment (as much as humanly possible). But with steely resolve.
Even if it is saying "Okay, I have the problem. But that problem is expressing itself in our relationship. I have set up an appointment with a counselor (or pastor or grandma or other person/couple that you know has a good grasp on marriage) and I am asking you to help me work on my problem."
As I said unless the LD spouse decides to take an active role in finding a solution to the problem the HD spouse has few choices.
So....what could you do to keep her from having to guess? This is something that needs to change in my POV. This is definitely something within YOUR control to work on. If you make some concerted efforts in this area, you may as a result see a change in her too
[[I also know that he doesn't want to appear "weak" so that has in the past prevented him from showing certain things. ]]
I can relate to that. She’s not very good about handling problems, she gets freaked out imagines worse case scenarios etc. If I showed her my problem/weakness (as I have in the past) I usually end up regretting it. Add that to my tendency to not show weakness anyway and I see where this could lead to miscommunications/poor communications.
[[Is it possible that your W has felt emotionally deprived? ]]
Sure. I’m pretty sure she does now, not so sure about earlier in the marriage. Over the last few months I’ve withdrawn and closed myself off. I know this doesn’t help anything…but I’ve not felt like I have anything left to give. And yes I feel bad about that.
I understand what you are saying...some people don't deal well w/crisis...both my H and I happen to do very well with that. But he's used to dealing w/people who don't...so he often behaves as though I will freak out on him.
Anyway...I digress, It's great to be strong and deal with problems/issues. It's a completely different issue to not show your W how you feel towards her, emotionally speaking. This is a problem.
If you read back on some of my threads you'll see that I'm a big advocate in changing yourself to get the ball rolling towards changing your R for the better. You have NO control over what she does, but you have control over what you do. If you are pretty sure she's emotionally deprived and you can help remedy that then do it!
Don't let your pride stand in the way on this. I know you feel that you're doing all the work right now...and maybe you are. But you have a problem in your M, you recognize it, and YOU have some power to help fix that.
A previous C of ours once asked me what need of my H's could I think of that I might not be meeting...that was a hard question to answer since he never told me. YOU have a good idea of a need your W has that you aren't meeting, you admit it she probably feels emotionally deprived.
Try changing yourself in a way to meet that need. That doesn't mean you have to be a quivering puddle of tears...but talk to her face-to-face and let your face/actions convey your emotions. Touch her, soften your face when you talk to her...things like that. Heck if you need to practice in a mirror. See how you look when you say something you'd like to tell her...does your face match your words?
It's a place to start...and definitely something to think about.
My first response to your question was she just need to ask…but that's not true. I'd sugar coat it.
I've written her (which is the way I best express this type of message) in the past...maybe it time to start a new discussion. I say that with a bit of dread and sadness though.
