Interesting, isn't this philosophy what the LD counts on? The lower desire (least interest) has the power.
I do most of the chores, not because I want to for the wife but because I want to for the kids and they need to be done. I don’t do much romantic as of January. I don’t feel honest doing it anymore.
sad thing, I used to really enjoy going out of my way and doing wildly romatic things for/with my wife. the anticipation and desire it fostered in me was wonderful and soemthing I go enjoyment from. I wasnt looking for sex from these efforts, but the total lack of desire (not just sex) has dampered my feelings to the point that this year for Valentines Day I picked up a card on my way home from work. This is the first time I can remeber that I didn't use it as an excuse for doing something fun and romantic. My heart just wasn't in it.
One of the saddest days of my life was when I bought my first "Shoebox" card for a Valentine's Day (or was it for our anniversary?) instead of my usual "mushy", Blue Mountain Arts variety. But reading the words of all the mushy ones, my heart just wasn't in it, so I went for humor.
I have made my needs known to my wife. So from here on, anything I do will be for the purpose of getting sex and affection. This is the way it works, I fill her needs, and she is to fill my needs. But she knows this. She knows that everything is planned to some how create more sex. She wants to be wanted for something other then sex, but I do want her for sex! This is NORMAL. The problem is that if I want her for sex, she hates this. If I DON'T want her for sex, she is happy I see things her way. Either way , I LOSE!
I think that my wife is one of those women that just assumes that marriages always die down and you just become friends sharing the same house later in life. Afterall, nobody actually wants sex and lovin' as they get to middle age, right? Afterall, most of the women she knows are like this. Her natural mother is fridgid, her adopted mother is VERY fridgid, her sister is fridgid (her husband cheats on her), her other sister is from what I hear LD, and so is my wife. Then many of her friends have lousy marriages and several are divorced. So she rarely if ever sees passionate marriages. This is kind of why I say the LD's intentionally screw up their marriages. I see all these LD ladies that have no ability to focus on sex, so what do they do, they fill up their lives with all kinds of activities. It seems that just about ANYTHING is more fun to a LD women then sex is.
Quote: I used to really enjoy going out of my way and doing wildly romatic things for/with my wife. the anticipation and desire it fostered in me was wonderful and soemthing I go enjoyment from.
Gentlemen, I'm going to tell you something from my POV regarding the romantic things referenced here. As we all know POVs are different and varied (so take mine with a grain or two of salt), but if NOP have been cranking out this kind of stuff for several years, I would be gagging at the level of overly sweetish events.
How were your wives responding to this over the years?
I wonder if some of you don't find this kind of stuff more natural to your personality (than the Neanderthal referenced earlier) and assumed that it was what all women wanted. Some do. A goodly portion of them don't.
It may be that your wives never cared about the chocolate, cards and flowers routine. And that you were getting much more out of it than they were.
If your wives are anything like me, let me tell you what I find romantic.
A manly man. They come in all ages, shapes, sizes and personalities. I'm not talking about the kind of guy that only grunts, but I am talking about the kind of guy who isn't just another one of my girlfriends. He is the ying to my yang. I *want* there to be differences between us.
Quoting from John Eldredge's book ~Wild At Heart~
"A hesitant man is the last thing in the world a woman needs.
She needs a lover and a warrior, not a 'really nice guy'.
Her worst fear is --- 'I will never be really loved, never really be fought for'."
Not whined at, not cajoled, not silently simmered at.
I am not trying to offend anyone - I just thought it might be of benefit to hear a different perspective.
I'm going to chime in with you on this. I am not a woman who puts much stock in gifts. In fact, I could really care less about gifts. Yes, they are nice...but for me the nicest thing is that I was thought of when my H decided to purchase something for me, it's really not WHAT the gift is.
But I do want someone who is going to stand up for me, who will make me feel protected & safe, someone who shows me he loves me not by what he gives me materially, but by what he does.
I really find this thread interesting. I can easily lose my motivation for sex, and I can tell you that there is nothing manipulative about it. I don't understand all the factors behind it, but somehow I just lose my motivation to be sexual. My current HDness was really fueled by my H's rejection of me and that "crisis" really got me going. I really admire you guys for trying to figure it out and get your W's on board. My H really didn't complain all too much and just detached. He tells me now he felt very rejected by me, which came out through anger and irritability...I have to say, even if he were more direct about it, it probably would not have gotten through. Romantic gestures would not have led to more sex...I would have enjoyed them but would have been very hurt if H thought it was a way to get more sex. If he did them just to be nice, it would not have triggered me to be sexual in return.
The one thing that may have gotten through is understanding in a heartfelt way how much my H was hurting over this issue. Do your wives have any clue how much pain you're in? Would you allow them to read some of your posts? Because when it comes down to it, I never understood what the big deal was about sex when I was feeling LD, and my H is not one to show emotional angst. I wish your wives could read your thoughts...you express yourselves so well on this BB.
I am almost CERTAIN you are right, but for us men this is a difficult and complex subject. On the one hand we are CONDITIONED to be understanding, caring, nurturing, ROMANTIC, thoughtful, etc., etc., etc. And then we're ALSO supposed to be the "bad boy" and strong and virile and protective and ....
Further complicating this is that contemporary American women -- esp. mothers -- (and I'm generalizing here, so PLEASE don't everyone reply that they're different; I"m saying on AVERAGE) are often critical and controlling of their husbands' decision-making. "Here, honey, don't do it THAT way, let me show you..." starts very early with the newborn babies and continues long into the marriage.
But I think your point is dead-on. It's the "Oprah-ization" of the American male, and we (the guys) allow it to happen.
I'll make another generalization: I think a lot of us guys' so-called "romantic" gestures ARE wanted by the woman, but only for their female friends' consumption. Getting the flowers at the office on Valentine's Day is for the gals to show the other gals that they're loved.
But I'm being especially cynical today.
Choc., who's always struggled to be 1/3 John Wayne, 1/3 Phil Donahue, and 1/3 George Bailey . . .
