Jo, you are just marvelous and a tremendous inspiration for all of us. Please keep posting your story, for it is most encouraging.
TAG, I have been where you are emotionally. In fact, twice now. Everything Jo has written you is gospel and you need to take it to heart. You can control only you and no matter if you had won $150 Billion in the lottery, you can't make them come back if they don't want to. Besides, what would you have and why would you want someone back who doesn't want you? You also need to be aware that many D attorneys will try to incite their opponents into anger so that they make rash and illogical/poor decisions. It works remarkably well too often. Take care and be strong.
Showing love without showing 'love' whilst detaching. Challenging.
You could try doing some 180's on your children (your children are the key, here. They are the reason you still have any contact so if you change your behaviour patterns with them, she will get to know about it and might be impressed with the new you).
NEVER say anything frustrated or negative about her in front of them or anyone else who associates with her. In fact, if you are the soul of reasonableness and say that you UNDERSTAND the reasons why she left, then she will get to hear about this also and it will take the guilt off her for leaving and make you seem like Mr Nice Guy for recognising your bad behaviours.
If you are religious, (sorry, can't remember if you are), then DON'T make it obvious you pray for her as this sounds righteous (i.e, I will pray for you, sinner - ultimate turn off). If you are praying etc then pray for yourself and your own development and she will be impressed that you are trying to seek guidence for your own character reform, rather than making her in the 'wrong'.
In any settlements, offer something you know she would like without waiting for her to ask. Use the lawyer briefly and to the point if that is what she wants but give her more than she was expecting without putting up a fight. Remember the catch phrase: 'IF YOU GIVE HER WHAT SHE NEEDS, SHE'LL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU NEED.'
Keep a photo of her and the kids up in the house so she knows she is part of your memory, without making it obvious you really want her back.
Look gorgeous and well groomed every time she sees you, but absolutely no R talk. Be happy and confident about yourself and don't bring up any hot potatoes so she knows it is then 'safe' to talk to you. If she thinks you accept divorcing her and she sees you in this light, it may make her want you again.
Scheldule some more time with your kids, both for repairing your R's with them and so she has more opportunity to see your positive changes. If you're GAL with the kids this is a great way to demonstrate changes.
Ioavva, I just got off the phone with my lawyer. I stressed although we are proceeding, my first goal is to save this marriage and I love my wife. I feel she is in pain and want all of this to proceed in a civil manner: 1."You could try doing some 180's on your children " in the works 2. "NEVER say anything frustrated or negative about her in front of them" not in front of D15, 31. But I confess I do with my son. 3. "DON'T make it obvious you pray for her " I pray but I don't pray as if she is at fault 4. "'IF YOU GIVE HER WHAT SHE NEEDS, SHE'LL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU NEED" I've told my lawyer to be fair and I'm leaving it to him to guide me. I already gave her the convertable I gave her on mother's day 1980. She knew how much I cared for it and offered it to her. 5. "Look gorgeous and well groomed every time she sees you" I will arrive in a suit. 6. "Scheldule some more time with your kids" easy for D31, harder for S30 (in San Antonio) really rough for D15 who's with her mom. I pray for time to heal. I offer time and if she turns me down I accept it. Remeber, my good and wise friend, my kids have told W I've changed. She calls it a game.
Right, well quit the bad talk in front of your son because she will get to hear about it, no doubt about it, and that's not going to make her feel love, plus it will heighten relatives desire to see you divorced, and you've already told me this upsets you.
If you need to off-load, do it on here or with a MC, not to people directly involved in the situation.
Re your son 30 (gosh, he's the same age as my H! - what date of birth is he? just being nosey!), you could write to him or start sending him weekly emails enquiring about his life and telling him about yours, to start being more of a 'family man'.
D 31, has she got any kids yet? If so, you could start taking your grand-babies to the zoo and stuff and be model grandad. If not, ask her to hurry up and oblige you with grand-babies because you want to go to Little League etc!
D 15, as she is still with your W, and by all accounts, your R with her is not very good, so your first priority should be to work on repairing the R and through that your W will see genuine changes. I mean, let's face it, it isn't nice being in disharmony with your dd.
Your W sees it as a game because I presume she saw you as insensitive during the M (or whatever reason she left you) and I presume you've been married a long time, given your kids ages, so she's going to be thinking 'Why did he not behave like this in the M? Why did it take him all these years to do this? Why NOW? It's just to get me back' etc.
That's WHY she thinks it's a game. If you can be consistent in your behaviour over a longer period of time and incorporate these changes into your lifestyle and she sees it working with d 15, then she will be more convinced.
Jo, Here's what I have done: 1."son 30 (2Jul73) you could write to him or start sending him weekly emails" We talk weekly. 2."D 31, has she got any kids yet" 2 and they are my best friends. They know grandpa will read to them, take them to the movies, and McDonlads. 3."D 15, your R with her is not very good" True, she too thinks I'm faking it. This visit I'll see all of her ballet performances. I'll pick her up from school and offer to take her to her favorite burger joint In-N-Out. I plan to build her a Nutcracker Ballet display case for her Clara performance. I might note that although W dotes over her for ballet D15 was first introduced to ballet by me when I'd take just her and I at age two and up to see the Nutcracker in Michigan. I've been whinning a lot recently because I see this marriage slipping away. Our friends and counselor see no reason for it other than resentments from 20+ years ago. I'm sorry but I'd rather be sad than mad. Question - should I have a talk to D15 about how I love ehr or will that just come across as fake? Maybe I should just focus on actions?
2nd July!! That's my dd4's birthday. She was born 2nd July 2002, at home with no dr and no drugs. H had gone to DIY store and I had her on living room floor while he was out, LOL. Really GREAT experience
My H was born 9th October 1974 so he's a bit younger than your S 30.
You could tell your DD 15 you miss her - love might come across a bit suffocating if you don't normally say that, and as you said, I think actions speak louder than words so just demonstrate you love her by doing the things you mentioned.
It's okay to be sad, but my point is, you mustn't be sad in front of relatives. Save your sad moments for the MC on or your own.
Think of it this way, no one wants to come back to someone who is whining etc. If you're miserable, what has she to come back to? You have to act fun and sexy and confident like you were when you married her - even if at this stage you feel you have to force it, it's important to behave like this. Focus on your end goal and that will help you stay in control of your emotions.
You can be sure 90% of my sad is expressed here. The other 10% is with my son. I got supportive counsel from the Lawyer and I realize that from here on out is where the rubber hits the road for DB. It's under the intense pressure of the D that I will apply DB techniques. I'm already amazed how not angrey I am. Who knows what tomorro will bring but I'm prepared to execute the fundamentals flawlessly.And, If I fail I'll pick myself. As you can see your posting has inspired so many people. We admire you love and caring. Thank you.
Well, I am by no means out of the woods with my H but I'm getting there gradually and sometimes I get scared in case something goes wrong so it helps me too, to write it on here and I thought because I am dating H after a D, I could give hope to lots of you who are in pain over separation.
When I was going through it, the first year I had no one. My family abandoned me (shame at failed M), kids and H gone etc and everyone telling me to 'get over it' (Grrrr!!). Then I found Ash, a delightful British Life-Coach who knew all about DB'ing and who basically saved my life. He taught me most of what I know about DB'ing and it's because of him that I'm even talking to my H. He told me about this site but I didn't use it at the time because his help was enough for me.
Then when I started seeing H again, I figured I'd come on here both to calm my insecurity and to give inspiration to others, that love can survive a divorce.
Plus, I hate human suffering and I think if there's a hurt in this world, we should try to fix it. I view all other people as my brothers, regardless of whether I know them or not, because if I was in trouble, I would want someone to help me.
I don't think I've done anything particularly special on here though, I am just trying to do what I wanted from others at the time when my H left.
Jo, You sure have helped me and your central theme of love carries me through these tough times. Before when my W would do or say something I'd take it personally and get mad. Now with your help and the help of counselors and others here I can better listen. I still fumble and I'm sure I will on this visit but thanks to your message of love I know my heart's in the right place. I'm going to the funeral of a former employee who passed away from cabcel at age 62. His death brings perspective to my life. I sent a copy of his obituary to W and her response was "I remember him as a very kind and gentle man. It's very sad news." See, there's kindness in her heart I just have to find a way to open her heart to me. My response was "His death sure brings perspective to my life. If only I knew then what I know now I would have lived so differently. I might grab a bite to eat on the way home so I won't be home for dinner tonight." Well, Jo, I'm in my new dark blue suit, white shirt, and pink tie. I even asked my clothier for the perfect olor combinations. My objective this visit is to be nice, be nice, be nice, and be nice. Also build my D15 her ballet display case and see her ballet performances. I'll see friends and have a ball with my dog. I haven't been home since 25Jan figuring detaching might help. Obviously I was wrong. I admire your patience and can't thank you enough for your support. Hopefully someday I can return the favor. TAG
Jo, What a wonderful way to start the day. My D15 who has been awfully quite asks to go to Starbucks before I personally take her to school. We have a wonderful conversation talking about the display case, school, and Easter dinner at the club. Yes, you read it right a family Easter dinner at the club!!! Over on the marriage/divorce front W is grousing. That’s great! After last weeks events I thought she’d be silent but if she’s still grousing she’s still working on something. I don’t know what. “It’s a Wonderful life!” Late last week I emailed W asking if she wanted to pick me up at the airport (1 mile from her office, landing at 5:20 PM, 20 minutes after she gets off from work) to which she replied “It's probably best for you to catch a cab.” Honey pot asked why and I guessed because we are getting divorced? Well, I returned home last night and only the dog greeted me. No note. So I posted “here I am all dressed up like Jo told me and no one’s home. The old reaction would have been anger, and a quick change to jeans, last night it was disappointment but patience following Susan Page (“How one of you can bring the two of you together”) “The secret to success with any endeavor is to keep your hopes high and your expectations low.” I went back to DB paused, and then went to use the phone. Lo and behold next to the phone is D15’s ballet schedule, which shows her in practice from 4:45 to 9:00 PM. All of a sudden the no pick up and absence are explained. So, I stayed dressed waited for their return and kissed and hugged my D15. Then I rolled the dice and got a kiss and hug from W. We talked a little and I rolled the dice again. Remember the story of stone soup. Jo, you will because it’s the story of the days of the knights in England and a few knights came to town and were hungry. No one would offer them any food so in the town square they filled a caldron of water and started to boil it. As the townspeople came to see what was happening they said, “what are you doing?” The knight would respond, “We’re making stone soup.” “Well,” said the townspeople “you need more than stones” and they proceeded to bring vegetables and meat for a wonderful feast. They took ownership. I’ve given up on the PAC-10 games and reframed my efforts W suggested D15 pick the colors and display material for my daughter’s Nutcracker ballet display case. Last night I asked for the things to be displayed. W went and got stuff. I asked what about the background? W said “D15, why don’t you go with Dad to pick something out?” Like stone soup. I’ll build a display case they will have designed and own. Wish me luck and say a prayer, please?
