Quote: If I can't be LD for sex, I need to learn how to become LD for a particular sexual relationship if my physical or emotional needs are not being met within it.
Yes! I think you are being too flippant when you designate yourself as HD. I was trying to explain this to Lil, who had a great point when she said that if you don't work this out now, you'll repeat it in some fashion in the next relationship. I am nervous for you because I picture you with some HDM and you are haivng great sex and he's wonderful...until he's not. He starts throwing in disrepectful and hurtful comments, and you stay oblivious to them because the sex is so great. One day you wake up and recognize that he has been putting you down, and you're torn about leaving because the sex is so great.
You have to be able to recognize attacks on your sense of self, jerky behavior and the like and defend yourself. You don't become LD ( which I have done in the past) or stay revved up in your HDness ( which I have also done). You keep intact a healthy sensuality as you confront bad behvior on your partner's part. You come up with a reasonable plan to keep your SL going as you address the issues. If the sex isn't so hot for awhile, so be it. You have your dignity and integrity and move forward from a place of love and commitment.
I feel Barney and Lil both need to get back in the game in a healthy way. JJ, I think you have to really work on the respect and esteem issue. OK, so I am controlling and like telling people what to do but that's because...
Quote: I've always been the kind of person to confound sex and love. I wouldn't ML with him right now simply because you're just not in a very loving place. Before you ML with him, ask yourself what he has done lately to make you feel loved.
This is good advice. I remember being struck by a post that MrsNOP made once in which she said she orgasmed while having the thought "This man loves me.". Just because I don't need to be able to think "This man loves me." when I orgasm doesn't mean I shouldn't want to be able to think "This man loves me." when I orgasm. Maybe I should make that my new rule. For my 40th birthday I will give up allowing myself to have orgasms during which I am only able to think things like "I love sex." or "I love bodies." or " I love this man." and demand that I adhere to the higher standard of only having sex when I can think "This man loves me." and make sure the love is the active verb kind of love.
If I consider the saying "The thing you need to do to fix your relationship is the thing that is hardest for you to do." I think it makes sense for me to give chastity a try since I know it will be damn hard for me to do.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: OK, so I am controlling and like telling people what to do but that's because...
I love you guys so much !!!!!!!
Thanks IHJ,
I really appreciate being able to think that you guys are looking out for me on some level. You are absolutely right about the danger that I might not be able to look out for myself with a HD guy either. I can see how this was true in some relationships I had with HD guys before my marriage. Of course, some of this was due to the fact that they were HD boys not HD men. I am putting on my chastity belt and locking it tight but this in no way means that I am becoming LD. I will have to come up with a new designation for myself, maybe HDWAD high drive with a difference or HDFM high drive for me or HDBYGWFI high drive but you gotta work for it. Suggestions are welcome. My new theme songs will be "Respect" by Aretha and "Living my Life Like It's Golden" by Jill Scott and maybe even "I Need a Soldier" by Destiny's Child.
My first item of business under my new way of life will be to tell my H the following. "I will not have sex with you or commit to continuing in a relationship with you until you make a consistent, serious effort to make me feel like you love me and think I am a beautiful person.". I also need to tell him something like I won't wait around forever for him to do this either. I am 99% certain that this is what I should do. If anybody on the BB thinks this is a bad idea please tell me why.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: JJ, how much is your husband drinking these days? When? Did the punching the wall thing happen after he had been drinking?
He's only been drinking a normal amount for him. He hadn't been drinking at all when he punched the wall. He would never punch a wall if he was drunk. He is a cheerful-do-a jig sort of drunk.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: My first item of business under my new way of life will be to tell my H the following. "I will not have sex with you or commit to continuing in a relationship with you until you make a consistent, serious effort to make me feel like you love me and think I am a beautiful person.". I also need to tell him something like I won't wait around forever for him to do this either. I am 99% certain that this is what I should do. If anybody on the BB thinks this is a bad idea please tell me why.
I think the challenge for all of us is to find warm and loving ways to enforce our boundaries. Demands and ultimatums just don't work in the context of a loving R. It's fine to change the way you're thinking or acting, but laying down another law with H seems like just another move in the chess game of your power struggle.
Re drinking: what is a normal amount for him? Since you know what his typical drunk behavior is, does he have some history of alcohol abuse?
A normal amount for my bf was one six-pack.
He didn't get drunk (or look or act drunk-- and then only barely) until after the second six-pack.
I am suggesting that your H is displaying some alcoholic (not drunk) behaviors, namely, an intolerance of emotional discomfort, which, when he experiences it, he short-circuits with a dramatic tactic like a tantrum, ultimatum, insulting you, punching a wall, smashing something-- anything to take the heat off of him. Alcoholics can be adolescents... my bf has recognized that he is emotionally stalled at the age he was when he started drinking to excess: 16. Chronologically he's 54.
Alcoholics behave like alcoholics even when they're not drinking, unless and until they recognize that they do behave this way and consciously face the fact that they need to change. People who are with alcoholics (like me) often take a long, long time to see the alcoholic behavior, even when they have had it paraded in front of them and felt the effects of it.
Quote: My first item of business under my new way of life will be to tell my H the following. "I will not have sex with you or commit to continuing in a relationship with you until you make a consistent, serious effort to make me feel like you love me and think I am a beautiful person.". I also need to tell him something like I won't wait around forever for him to do this either. I am 99% certain that this is what I should do. If anybody on the BB thinks this is a bad idea please tell me why.
JJ I think that your decision to become the withholder yourself is a good one but...... I don't think you should bundle so much into the package. You are presenting an end to everything as a threat and he will simply switch into defensive/offensive mode.
Stick with just withholding the sex for a couple weeks. Don't ask for or offer sex of any kind and also do not give in to his overtures for sex. Continue to hug and/or kiss but not in a sexual way. You can also keep meeting his other needs, the only thing absent will be sex and intimacy. If he tries to pressure you, you will have to pull yourself away. Do not make a statement or threat to your H that you are "doing this to him because..." you have to stay quiet about it until he asks. When he finally asks whats going on after a few days simply state "I need romance and intimacy from you in order to return it back". Don't clarify or embellish the statement any further, it stands on its own.
This is how you begin the cycle of detachment. It does not mean that you don't give love and understanding to him, you just withhold the buscuits for a while. This is going to be really tough for you as a physically addicted HD. I suggest you MB if you need a release, but don't hide the fact your meeting your own needs. Don't flaunt it but don't hide it. You could also use your exercise as a release as it would help you feel better about yourself.
If I understand you guys properly, you are telling me that it's good for me to set this boundary but if I make a pronouncement about it that would be aggressive. I think you are right. I was actually thinking that I wouldn't try to explain my behavior until my H did confront me about it but I couldn't figure out if this might just be passive aggressive which would be worse. I'm sort of confused because it seems to me that it would be kind of a loving thing for me to set this boundary with my H because otherwise he is never going to be able to respect himself for the way he behaves. I guess it would be a sort of "tough love" but his behavior would seem to warrant it.
If I really don't want to settle for less than what I'm asking for by setting this boundary then how is it simply a move in our power struggle? I'm sure my feelings of confusion are directly related to my lack of practice or skill in setting this kind of boundary.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Do not make a statement or threat to your H that you are "doing this to him because..." you have to stay quiet about it until he asks. When he finally asks whats going on after a few days simply state "I need romance and intimacy from you in order to return it back".
I agree with this except if an when he inquires about what you're up to, I wouldn't make it about him at all. And I think you need to get to a place (at least temporarily) where it isn't about him.
So if he asks you, What's up? instead of replying as RLT suggests above, you might say something like: "I'm spending some time going inside and trying to understand my own sexuality." That way you are totally detached and haven't done one of those teeny hole-biting things that I described on FF's thread.
I'm thinking of an exchange in one of Schnarch's books where a couple left the C session and the husband was in a state of turmoil due to something his W had said. He turned to her for some kind of explanation or comfort, but she said, "I can't talk to you about that now. I'm busy trying to figure out for myself what this-and-that means." I don't remember the exact issue.
So, to summarize, you shut down the sex channel, he comes to you-- suspiciously-- and asks about it. You, in essence, say: "I can't take the time right now to explain to you and soothe your discomfort. I'm busy inside myself, figuring out my own stuff."
To me that's detachment. His reactions to you are none of your business at this point.
