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Excellent point Crushed. I needed to hear that today also. With experiences come changes, good or bad, we decide the outcome. Perhaps the question should be, "Do you really want it to be the same, knowing where it ends up"? Put the effort in and make it better. That's my goal anyway.

Hi Phoenix...may I wish you a belated welcome to Piecing

I've been down the road you are on (still am to some degree i suppose) and it does drive you crazy and makes fo r some really tense moments.

My take is this...I made the conscious CHOICE to trust my H again. It took a heckuva lot of self talk to do so but i did it. Just a DB teaches LOVE is a choice, so is trust. So are most aspects of an R. We chose to fight the hard fight to stay with our M's and do whatever it took to make it work. We bought a book and joined a bb community to help us do things we never imagined that we could...all by choice. We accomplished these things ALONE as well...remember, it only takes one person actively working on it to save an M

If you have Db'd well enough to bring your alien home then there is no way that you could be the consolation/booby prize, second choice or anything else of that nature. You are the GOLD RING by HIS CHOICE...you set things up for that to happen You SHOWED him through artful and loving DB'ing what a wonderful catch you were and you convinced him of it...or he wouldn't be there now

Take the pressure off...talking about something he doesn't want to or isn't ready for right now could drive a wedge in again. My H will talk about many aspects of the R, he likes to talk about the future and what is going on in it day to say...but if I venture into the past he closes up tighter than a tick, gets angry and we inevitably have an argument. For him, the past is done and over with...it can't be changed and it ISN"T going to be repeated and there is no sense in constantly beating away at it (we talked about it extensively when he made up his mind to come back...that short time-period was enough for him).

Try to focus in on what your H does DO and SAY. Could it be that he just doesn't know your LL so you aren't "hearing" his feelings for you? Do you have a preconceived idea of the way he should be behaving right now since he CHOSE to make the M work? Are you still trying to follow the steps in the book and thinking "this is where we should be right now"? THe one thing I learned is that while the book makes an excellent guideline for OUR behaviour pre- and post- reconcilliation there is no hard, fast set of rules you can follow once you reconcile in regard to the way your spouse is going to act. SOme S's spew forth a guilt-ridden, teary apology and go out of their way to reassure and reconfirm their feelings...other's apologize once and that's enough while still others never apologize at all or recognize any guilt for their actions. They do what makes it possible for them to live with themselves and that is it. Once you reconcile you do a lot of winging it.

In the end...what you may need to do is seek individual counseling to help you deal with this aspect better. If you can make the choice to trust him again though...it is the best gift you could ever give..to both you and your H.

Regards,
Zoo

Thank you Zoo for your comments. They are very helpfull and well needed these days. By the way I'm a guy, but everything else you were right on the money. My PMA needed to hear what you said about being the Gold Ring.

I'll try to start my own thread. Please keep an eye open for it here in Piecing. Although I like to read books, I would much rather learn from other peoples experience. Don't be afraid to be candid, I would much rather be knowledgable than struggling in ignorance. The day I decided to make my M work I knew it would be a long road. That doesn't bother me. It's when I feel I'm spinning my wheels with no good game plan is when I feel useless.

Thanks for the advice. By the way I'm printing what you said for the tough days.

Watch for the new kid.

Thanks for your comments, Zoo. I think you somehow mixed my and Phoenix' sitch, but that's okay - we have very similar experiences.

New thing in my R is that my H seems to have lost interest in sex. I think it's my fault because he usually just wants sex, so forgets about foreplay (I don't normally mind), so the other night, I asked him to make love to me, not just sex, not that there's anything wrong with just sex, but I just felt like having gentle lovemaking. Well, I think I somehow said it wrong, and he's been disinterested since. We still cuddle in bed, and hug, but no making love or even just sex. Perhaps he's sensitive about it. I told him last night, that he didn't have to, and he said he felt pressured now, so I just left it at that, and I think I won't bring it up again. I will leave initiating up to him from now on. At least, for a little while. He was always HD, whereas I was LD (now HD). I did ask him (foolishly) if there was someone else he was interested in, and that was why he had lost interest, and he emphatically denied it, so I guess I believe him. I just want to circumvent any further pain (selfishly, for myself). Won't ask that question again.

Someone said somewhere else on the bb, that once you go into the piecing side of one's new R, then you are just winging it - there are no books that can help now, but one can bounce ideas around and someone else here may've had similar experiences and give some advice on what worked for them, or didn't work for them.

Anyway, I am rambling, so will take a break.

Going back to Valentine's Day which Phoenix brought up on his thread. I think these sorts of celebrations gives us a feel for where we're at in our new R's with our spouses.

Anyway, I know what I would like to receive .... and, I know I an fantasizing here! I would like my H to propose to me again, so that we can have another 'wedding' where we can renew our vows, and make new ones. And then, I want to go on a real honeymoon (never really had one). I want proper engagement and wedding rings, and a beautiful wedding dress (didn't really have one of those either). I want to finally be treated with adoration and love, and have what most women take for granted. Sigh! But, I guess that's all a pipe dream.

Just came from the doctor - been having woman problems that I am slightly scared may be more serious. I have to go for some tests. So, we'll see what happens. And the challenges keep on coming.

Journalling:

I instigated a R talk yesterday. There are a few things that have been bothering me, and I just needed to clear the air. I don't know if he 'heard' what I was saying - all throughout our M, he has heard what he wants to hear, so I have no expectations. I am bothered by our lack of intimacy (always been a problem), for instance, he won't kiss me on my lips during lovemaking, and it makes me feel rejected. Anyway, I spelled it out as clearly as I can what I want, what my needs are, and how I feel when they're not being met. He responded by reminding me that I was emotionally unavailable (and the times this happened changes according to his mood - and he forgets his own emotional bankruptcy at various times) for so many years (which is bs), that he loves me and is in love with and has always loved me, but he needs me to be patient (and I have been painfully so since finding out about the EA), and that he doesn't feel the same way he did before despite being in love with me - WTF!

I am now losing what little patience I have left, and feel he is dragging his feet in helping to make our M work. I told him that, although I had low self esteem in the past, now I don't, and I feel I deserve to be treated with respect.

We shall see where it goes. He seemed to listen, and take what I was saying into consideration. I mentioned a couple of other things, but who know really how much he cares, one way or the other. The EA has, apparently, been over since August 2004, but the longer he takes to withhold true intimacy, the longer I feel he is still in contact and has not really broken the connection with the OW. Since asking for us to ML and not just have , we haven't done it. Go figure! Perhaps he really is feeling pressurized, as he says. I am tired of working this mostly by myself.

Journalling, but please comment, if you can think of what I can do.

I really am at a loss. We have completed our sessions with MC, but I think we stopped too soon. He is still not reassuring me that I am safe in our R. He is still not initiating ML (perhaps a couple of times in the last month, down from a couple of times a day up until our holiday in December). He still gives me little room to express my fears, needs, questions about EA. He rarely tells me he loves me first, but will respond the same if I say it. He is affectionate - hugs and kisses me hullo and goodbye, cuddles at night. He usually does contact me various time throughout the day.

We had another R talk last night where I told him that I feel unsafe in our M. And I want him to find a way that will reassure me that he will not have another affair again. He says that nothing in life is guaranteed (which I know, but heck, give me a crumb, please). He says he is sorry about what he put me through. He still brings up my past failings, and that he had intended leaving anyway (without informing me of his intentions) once our D12 had finished school. He gets very offended if I question his trustworthiness (he says it's the way I do it - oy!).

I feel like I am his second-choice (still) and only because I am the mother of his children, he is only here because of the them, and that he is only making a very feeble attempt at keeping our M together. I don't know what to do. Everytime, I start feeling a little trust, I get scared, and I backslide into thinking back to things he said about me to OW, and the things he said to her re having sex with her, them being together (he says now that it would never have worked because she has children, he has children, and they live thousands of miles apart, which leaves me thinking "why is he here with me then", "surely, not for my sake"?). I am just terrified of going through all this again. I feel like walking away, but I know I would feel guilty if I do.

I know I should have patience, but he has very little to spare for me. I think I am going back into panic mode, and that really is a dead-end street. I guess I'm going to have to find a way to take control of my life, with or without him - again. I am still seriously thinking of ending this M. He is not responding in a way that makes me feel secure, and I have a need to feel that my significant other is there for me, no matter what.

Agggghhh! Enough of this self-pity! I guess I will know, one way or another, if and when the time is right to stay and go.

That would be stay or go.

I had a relatively small car accident last weekend, and it has really left me shaken. We immigrated to Canada from another country, and my friends and family are really far away right now, and I don't really want to burden them with my problem anyway. So! The past 7 months has been hell, trying to keep a M together while feeling pretty alienated from those around me. Still, I do have some new friends who have been as supportive as they can be, given the circumstances.

Okay, this is a pity party, right now. I am feeling sore, far from familiar surroundings, and confused as to what to do. I am not saying there isn't hope because there is. I'm just tired of the whole DB thing right now. Tomorrow is another day, I guess.

Hope you're all having a good night.

Like yourself, BeingME, I'm having a hard time with the continual day to day struggle. Although things are not as bad as they use to be, it's hard fighting the fight alone. Today one of my most helpfull friends during this crisis is moving on to another job. If it wasn't for him, I don't know where I would be. From here on out it's going to be an up hill battle. I too am trying to figure out if I'm up to the fight.

I've started going back and reviewing the books I've read and just trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Part of my problem is I grew up in a very affectionate house, it's hard to be in a stand off relationship. For me it's hard to show love and not come across as clingy.

My motto is "Endure to the end" these days. This of course is followed by, "It's not over till I say it's over". Of course the school of though of, "it's better to keep your mouth shut and not be wrong" seems to be fighting "how will they know what your thinking if you don't speak your mind".

Well that's my dissertation for the day. Not sure if it's of any help. But I think you need to know who your friends are out there and that we're here for you.

I don't know how long I can stay. Each day gets harder and harder. It's not just this issue that we have to deal with, but I think he has resentments from long ago. We started our M with him being very unaffectionate, he has resented me for not supporting him with a venture (long story, but he feels I should've been more supportive and not critical, but we had small children to take care of, and I was scared to give up everything, but oh well.... 18 years ago), then there was the cyclic porno addiction (he finally sought help for that with C, but it left it's scars on me - this was 5 years ago), and finally this EA. He, of course, feels that he is doing right, but I still feel he is lying to me, and hiding stuff from me.

Trust, once broken, is hard to get back, I think. I never thought he would do this to me or to our family, and at a time when I need him most. And to lie made it worse. I would've preferred the truth, as bad as it was. I found out anyway. I am tired of his excuses, for everything.

We'll see.