hi frankly, just stop by and your post caught my eye (I'm in surving the D) I just have to tell you from a woman who had an affair--I am so please that you are at least giving it a try. From your posts it sounds like you are doing everything you can, it shows what a strong person you are. Just thought you should know.
Suzy, thanks for the good words. Read a little about your background, wish your husband could/would find a way to forgive and understand. Points for your courage and willingness to do what it would take. Seems out of your control now.
Sometimes think I gave my trust and forgiveness to willingly/easily. Wife doesn't seem to appreciate it or understand how big this really is for people in our situation.
Have to confess I am having my own WAS thought. I find I am planning exit strategies. Don't like it, can't seem to help it. Granted its only been 3 months since moving home, but I am just not getting/seeing what I need from the relationship. My wife is changing but not in the areas that would make me feel better about this marriage surviving.
Wonder if there is a part of me that isn't able to forgive her for the EA. Wonder if there is a part of her that can't forgive me for bad year in our marriage (even though I have changed).
Are we at the "Stick a fork in us, were done" stage? Boy where did all my determination, and resolve go?
Frank - just a little perspective here: even in my case, where H and I reconciled quickly and he was truly remorseful and did (almost) everything right, it still took about a year before the words "I want a divorce" would quit popping into my head at random moments.
It's hard and it's scary because you feel so vulnerable, and must be more so for you because she's not meeting your needs for reassurance. Just trying to offer that some of this is normal at this stage.
Have you read The Five Love Languages by Chapman? Would she read it with you? Or maybe watch Michelle's KLA tapes?
Thanks for the perspective, and words. My wife read 5LL (although pre-sep) as have I (along with a boat load of other R type books). She is not one to discuss much about the relationship. Doesn't like to stir things up. Also not much of a self-help book reader. In general likes to avoid having to deal with "stuff". The no R talk part of DBing feeds that part of her, all to well. "He's not talking about the relationship, so I don't have to either" so nothing gets talked about, except in the therapists office, once every 3 weeks.
Time to toot my own horn a bit. I have been busting my *** trying to do everything right. My W even admits that I have been doing "all the right things" but to no effect. I know I still do things that "don't help" occasionally, but in general I work hard everyday to try and be positive, supportive, and give/show love and appreciation. She says her LL is WOA, and I work on this everyday, but it doesn't seem to have any affect. For the record thats what her EA was based on, so I know it works, just not from me. She is really not putting much thought or effort into understanding, let alone, fullfilling my needs right now. She knows what they are, but they/I just don't show up on her emotional radar. We are friends, more like platonic friends.
I understand this is a normal part of the process. But how long does this "phase" last? I'm worried we might loose momentum, if we stay in this place too long. How have others move beyond this phase, and what did you do that worked?
I dropped the bomb on the relationship last night. I had spent most of the day stewing over things, re-reading my journal and hitting the boards. I left work feeling like I had reached my limit, and that I was no longer going to take anymore. The thought that I could not escape, was that while there had been positive moments, in general I have been increasingly unhappy with the quality, tone and direction or our relationship over the past couple of months. My wife had reverted back to her old ways of not communicating, not being open, disregarding my needs and feelings, and in general not being the active partner that I told her I had to have, and that she had committed to being.
Strangely, I found myself feeling quite happy after deciding I was going to drop my own "bomb". I had been all twisted up inside thinking that I had been doing something wrong, that I needed to do something to make things move in a better direction. When I realized that I was not the problem, I felt a ton better. I came home happy, knowing in my heart, that I was doing all the right things. It allowed me to have a good evening with her, and it was nice. Later that night, she actually initiated LM, and although she was nervous (so was I) things were very successful. I guess thats what makes what happened next all the more troubling.
I asked her to talk to me about her being nervous. She told me that she gets nervous taking the risk of initiating and having it not happen. I understood, and tried to tell her that it is just as risky for me when I initiate and that I get nervous too. But the only way for us to get past this, is together and that we have to take the risks, and then try to be there for each other.
I never got the chance. She shut down on me in the middle of me sharing my feelings, and got angry. Apparently she didn't want to talk about it, even though she brought it up initially, and that I was supposed to know that she didn't want to talk about it (somehow). It pissed me off, because the same old person had just reappeared. Emotionally cut off, withdrawn, and defensive. So I took a deep breath, and calmy dropped my own little bomb.
I told her she was not doing anything to meet my needs. That she was not doing anything to keep her promise of being open, and being communicative. That I was no longer willing to continue on in this marriage this way, because this was just more of the same. At one point, I pointed out that she was not this way with the OM, and she agreed. So whatever it is, it has to do with me, her, us, or our baggage. I put it out on the line, that either she needs to change and fast or this is over, for real. I meant it.
I do want to be with her and I have enjoyed our time together, but I am not interested in a friend. I want a lover, a wife, and a partner and a companion. That she was not working hard enough at being that in our marriage and that was no longer good enough for me.
I woke this morning having second thoughts. Maybe I had been too hasty, too harsh. But I need to remember what I was feeling and how things have been these past couple of months and remember that this is not me being harsh. This is about her being able to keep her commitment to changing in the relationship, and her changing the way she is with me. I can't do that for her, and I have spent the past couple of months, agonizing over the fact that I thought I needed to do something. I lost sight of the fact that it was her, that had something to prove, not me. It was her that had an affair. Some how the whole thing got turned around and it started to head us in a direction that was not good and not what I wanted.
The ball is in her court. I am "going dark" so to speak. I am not avoiding her, or canceling any of our time together we have planned this weekend. I am going to try and do my best DBing. I don't want her to think I am not willing to be with her, but she knows now, that the clock is ticking and she needs to start bringing her "A" game and fast or I am out of there, with no regrets. I deserve better, so does she.
frankly, this is a very tough stage in piecing to be in. You're "there", but not quite yet. Still a lot of "garbage" to work through.
I'm a little short on time, and haven't been able to see much background on your sitch, but here's something that glared right out at me. Forgive me if I seem a bit "brief".
Quote: I asked her to talk to me about her being nervous. She told me that she gets nervous taking the risk of initiating and having it not happen. I understood, and tried to tell her that it is just as risky for me when I initiate and that I get nervous too. But the only way for us to get past this, is together and that we have to take the risks, and then try to be there for each other.
I never got the chance. She shut down on me in the middle of me sharing my feelings, and got angry. Apparently she didn't want to talk about it, even though she brought it up initially, and that I was supposed to know that she didn't want to talk about it (somehow). It pissed me off, because the same old person had just reappeared. Emotionally cut off, withdrawn, and defensive. So I took a deep breath, and calmy dropped my own little bomb.
Did she actually "shut down", or might you have actually "cut her off"?
Re-read what's in the quotes, and tell me at what point things may have gone south for you.
I KNOW that you want to share your feelings, and that you will NEED to. Nothing wrong with that at all. However, DO be careful of your "timing". It looks to me like you had her starting to open up a bit like you want her to, then you got off track.
Validate, don't "fix". One mouth, two ears. Learn to listen, and also listen to learn.
Quite often, we when see that "same old person reappear" in our partner, maybe some of the "same old person" has reappeared in us.
Again, sorry to be so brief, don't mean to be harsh, but just some food for thought. I might be way off base here.
Hang in there, and "go dark" only for as long as it will take for you to re-center yourself. You've made it this far already, don't give up hope quite yet.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
P.S. Be cautious about bringing up the om during times like these. You just brought an elephant into the room, which will change the focus of your rebuilding efforts. This is not about him, this is about you and her.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Thanks for the input. Everything helps. In answer to your question. The issue of initiating sex had been a charged situation in our marriage lately. All that she had said was that she was nervous about initiating, nothing as to why she was feeling that way. Afterwards, I asked "Tell me about why you were nervous". She said that she gets nervous, intiating. That taking that kind of risk makes her nervous. I told her that I get nervous about initiating too, and that I could understand as well, it was just as much of a risk for me to try and intiate.
She got angry with me, saying that she didn't want to talk about it, and never really did. That I should have just taken her answer to be the end of the conversation and realize that she didn't want to discuss it. I responded that I wasn't trying to discuss it, I just wanted her to know that I understood, and that we were in this together. All I was trying to do is share my similar feelings. If she didn't want to discuss it, that's all she would have had to say. I thought she had a concern, and I wanted to try and be understanding. It kind of went on from there.
Now hindsight it a wonderful thing, I know that there were a probably a thousand different things I could/should have done different. But there is also sometimes moments or opportunities that distill in a few seconds the essence of a problem. Trust me, this was one of those moments. It was a prime example of what I had been receiving from my wife over the past few months, and what I had come to realize, I was no longer willing to live with.
I realized that I may have stumbled here. But what are you supposed to do, when you "Ask for what you want…", your spouse agrees, over and over, and then nothing happens? If she is not willing to, or is unable to try … then fine. I won't hold it against her. Have enough respect for yourself and me, to say "I can't…, I am sorry" instead of "I will…" and then fail to come through.
Thats the basic idea of my declaration. I love her, but I want us both to be happy. She deserves better than what is happening, and I sure do too.
No threats, no ultimatums (per se'). Just asking for what I want, what I need, and letting her know I want a relationship, and a partner who is going to do the same for me, and then work with me to achieve it.
Thanks for the input. Everything helps. In answer to your question. The issue of initiating sex had been a charged situation in our marriage lately. All that she had said was that she was nervous about initiating, nothing as to why she was feeling that way. Afterwards, I asked "Tell me about why you were nervous". She said that she gets nervous, intiating. That taking that kind of risk makes her nervous. I told her that I get nervous about initiating too, and that I could understand as well, it was just as much of a risk for me to try and intiate.
She got angry with me, saying that she didn't want to talk about it, and never really did. That I should have just taken her answer to be the end of the conversation and realize that she didn't want to discuss it. I responded that I wasn't trying to discuss it, I just wanted her to know that I understood, and that we were in this together. All I was trying to do is share my similar feelings. If she didn't want to discuss it, that's all she would have had to say. I thought she had a concern, and I wanted to try and be understanding. It kind of went on from there.
Frankly...I read a book some months ago (what was it? Maybe the "Lost art of listening"?) that suggested that while we often think "yah, I feel that way too" is validating and supportive, it can often come across as the opposite. IOW, isn't it possible that your w was trying to share with you how she was feeling and she ended up feeling invalidated or even shut off? Perhaps she interpreted your "yes, me too" as "we've all got worries, tell me something I don't know". Do you know what I mean? I'm struggling to communicate here
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
It seems that everyone is able to see my mistakes so easily, I now am questioning whether what I did was a "good" thing or not! I know at the time I felt good about it, even before it happened. But now I don't know. Maybe I dont really get this whole DB thing after all. Talk about being confused?!
This every changing uncertainty is a killer. There are always a thousand ways to interpret anything, how can one ever be sure of something, at least enough to make some kind of decision or change?
So now apparently, I have painted myself into one hell of a corner, and now can't even trust the way I feel. Crap what do I do now.
