Hello, I have read through many of the posts on this board and would like to introduce myself. This will be a long post - sorry, but want to let everyone know where I am and what I share in common with many here. Also, at the very end I will get to my current situation so you can comment on that if you like...
I have been married 18y to LDW. We have 2D. Our first years together were okay sex wise, but not spectacular. I didn't know it could be better and accepted it as it was. Over the years it has gone downhill. W desire has gotten less and less. In the last 10 years it has averaged once a month. It got to the point that it was a "I guess it's that time again" kinda thing. For years my W had convinced me that our sex life was above average even though it was once a month, standard positions, no toys, extremely limited oral, etc.
About a year and a half ago I stumbled onto another forum on the internet much like this one. That is when my eyes were open and I learned that there were women out there who enjoyed sex as much as myself. It was such an incredible thing to read about women who WANTED to be touched in a sexual way but their H did not do it. My W does not welcome ANY explicit touching if we are not ML. To read about women who wanted sex 2-3 times a week just killed me. How could I be with a woman who never desired me and only gave in once a month to keep the peace with all these women just like me out there.
I started to get depressed. How different my life would be if I was with one of THESE women... I confronted my wife and asked why she did not desire me. I asked if she would consider any test or medications that could help increase her desire. She became so enraged I packed my bags and spent 48 hours at my office. I had made an appointment to see a counselor earlier in the week and ended up going for my appointment during this 48 hour period. The counselor helped me to stay strong and wait out my W. After 48 hours she came to me and asked me to come home.
I heard about the SSM book and read the entire book in one weekend. I did not mention it to W because I knew the title alone would send her off the deep end.
Over the next year I went to counseling once a week. It was nice to have someone to vent to. The counselor really wanted to see my W, but she was very opposed to it. After all, I was the broken one... why should she go? Finally, the counselor told me to tell her that my sessions were at an end unless she (the counselor) could get information from W on what the problem was.
Over the next 4 months we attended sessions together every other week. My wife claimed to be a sexual person who was turned off by my pushing and anger. She claimed that she is in the mood once every two weeks and could easily bump it up to once a week if she was comfortable with me.
At the end of 4 months our funds were getting tight and we could simply not afford to keep going to counseling. We agreed to work together on self-counseling. Our biggest problem is communication. I have taken much time to read two books and listen to an audio book on marriage issues. She does not put forth as much effort. She really feels that if I will just worry about me and fix me then all will be well.
This month we have had many fights... we communicated and resolved them well enough. She really gets stuck on my anger issues. Please understand... if you were to ask any friends and family they would not describe me as an angry person. I am the story teller, the comedian, the smart guy... people describe me as helpful, and tell my wife how lucky she is to have such a supportive H. The reason she gets stuck on the anger thing is this... she rejects my advances all the time. This causes resentment in me. I think Hairdog and I are in much the same boat. I initiate only once every two weeks because I know she is going to reject me and feel pressured = fight.
I get angry because I feel I am trapped in a relationship that leaves me starving while she is living it up... she can snap at me for not putting something away, but I am supposed to be silent about no physical contact for 20+ days ??? that makes me mad. When I'm angry I close up emotionally and shut down - I am not violent and I do not yell.
Now lets jump to the current situation...
I decided last week to pick up the SSM book again. Boy, have I been messing up. It made me feel so good to read all those words about how no sex does not equal no love. It felt so comforting to hear all the stories from people in my same situation. I had never told W about this book. I thought now was the time to do so. On Friday of last week I printed up a list of 10 quotes from the book that have come exactly out of our mouths. I thought this would make her want to read the book while I was out of town for the weekend. She did not take it well. As soon as she found out I wanted to talk to her about sex she was up in arms. She would not even look at the paper I printed out. She told me that she does not need to read any book I have. I tried to explain to her that the lack of sex causes my anger... if I were in a more intimate relationship with her there would be no anger. She told me it is the opposite. My anger causes her to not want to ML. She said it is up to me first to get rid of the anger and all will be fine. I told her I can do it for three weeks at a time but I see no improvement from her so I give up... We talked it out and finally it seemed to get better... she told me that she could picture us having sex once a week if we could get past this. She even told me she wanted to ML right after we made up (not common). We ML and it felt great, I thought we really connected emotionally. I had to leave that night for an out of town trip. She called the next day and told me to check my email. In the email was a long letter that started out with her saying that she re-thought what she said and realizes that she just can't see us ML on a weekly basis. What a blow... the night after you ML someone tells you that - gosh, was it that bad? Reading the SSM book and these forums is the only thing that keeps me sane. I know that it is not me. We exchanged a few emails and she said some pretty hurtful stuff. I resisted the urge to lash back at her.
I have decided that I am going to dump the anger mode for 4 months... I will not get personally offended by her off-the-cuff crass statements. I also will not pressure her into anything close to intimate. If after 4 months I do not see an improvement I will have to take a long hard look at my life. Like so many people on here I do not want to spend my life in a sexless marriage.
On the positive side... she is trying to touch me more... a squeeze on the leg, rub on the shoulders, etc because she is finally understanding that it is what I need and it keeps me calm and happy. Likewise, I am NOT touching her because I understand that for her touching means sex and she is not comfortable with ANY pressure.
Also, here is a good/bad thing. She told me 10 days ago she wanted to start a weekly date night so we can spend time together and reconnect. No kids, no stress, not sex... just time talking and having non-intimate fun so we can get to know each other again. She wanted to learn to put me first more often by making room in her schedule. The bad side of this is that she feels I avoid conflict and let my anger build - as such, she wants each date to also have a topic of discussion from me so we can work on our communication. This sounds great, but so far the two nights we have gone out, the discussion has turned into a fight because any negative comment from me is seen as an attack and then she fights back. By the way, in case you are wondering - no, the topics I picked were NOT about sex. I thought they were pretty simple... guess not...
Right now, we are getting along quite well. She is on her period and we have not had sex on her period in the last 15 years so it is a very "safe" time for her because she knows I will not try anything.
Well, I think I have written a book for now. I will stop. I just wanted to give you a little info so I can pop in from time to time and get some things off my chest.
My situation is a bit different from yours and my H and I are still working on it so I don't really have much advice to give you on that. I just wanted to let you know that I know what you're feeling - I spent 15 years feeling that there was something inherently wrong with me (I imagined everything from being a nymphomaniac to smelling bad) because my husband became less and less interested in sex as our marriage went on. My self-esteem was about as low as you can go and still keep breathing. The food analogy really is a good one, in that I was starving slowly from lack of intimate touch and emotional connection.
Coincidentally enough, I just posted a few mintues ago about envy - envy of a friend of mine who was complaining that her husband "bothered" her for sex. She has MORE than she wants, talk about a surfeit of riches! Of course she doesn't think of it as riches, to her it's, well, a bother.
As a higher-desire spouse I've found it very hard to really see things from the LD spouse's viewpoint, but I think that we HD people need to try harder in that respect. It hurts when we're rejected (trust me, I've still got bleeding wounds from it) but think of the shame, the self-doubt and anger that the LD spouse may be feeling, too.
It's really easy for me to think of my H as being selfish (as he did not acknowledge a problem with our sex life for so long, leaving me to bear the burden of it alone) but then I have to realize that to admit a problem is to admit something SO personal, SO identity-shaking that the guilt over watching me suffer the consequences was preferable until it became obvious that something had to give.
Well I am sure all of this muddled talk hasn't helped you much, but I did want to express some solidarity. My H and I are working on it, though it isn't easy. Actually it's probably the hardest thing I've ever faced. Then again, he's the most precious thing in my life so it's worth it.
Sometimes I think that even when I can deal with the lack of intimacy, I cannot deal with her not trying. It would be a completely different relationship if she said to me "I know that I have LD and I don't want to be like that... I want to work on this together..."
Instead, a lot of time I get the comment that this is "your problem, I am fine with sex once a month...get over it"
If things do not change I can't imagine what would keep me in the house in 10 years when the kids are gone...
The irony of that is that she says the most jaw dropping things sometimes... once when I didn't exercise she said "you better keep yourself in shape, I plan on having a sex life in my later years..." - my two thoughts on this are (1) why wait until we are 65 to have a sex life? and (2) if we are still having sex only once a month I don't see it as a major strain...
It makes me think of the main thing that drives me crazy about my W. She is a hypocrite. She expects me to stay happily married to her even though she isn't in the mood to be intimate, yet she told me that when the kids are gone she wants to travel, see the world, blah blah blah and if I'm not physically fit enough to join her she will find someone else... she isn't going to spend her silver years in a rocking chair watching TV...
Sorry you are here (we know what you are going through), but welcome. This BB is an excellent resource.
It sounds to me that you do have other issues other than just the frequency thing, and I think you are aware of it too. Different people here have had success using different approaches, but the common thread for success seems to be sharing a deeper level of communication in a non-judgemental and non-threatening way. In my case, I had tremendous success with the dialog technique taught at World-Wide Marriage Encounter weekends (I highly recommend this for couples who are committed to making their relationship work). They teach you to communicate your feelings (and they remind you there is nothing right or wrong with your feelings, they just are). Once you learn to share your feelings, your can each put yourself in the other's shoes much easier which makes it so much easier to find a common middle ground. Like anything else, you get out of it what you put in, so YMMV.
I had some initial limited success with the 180 described in SSM, but it was only temporary, I think because with that you are guessing your partner's thoughts and motivation rather than working directly with them.
Anyway, you've come to the right place. There is a lot of experience dealing with it here, and a ton of wisdom from people who have had varying degrees of success. I wish you the best.
--GGB, who says it is great to be a geek, 'cause then you can afford the fun toys!
Oh yeah, one other thing. It is quite likely she is also trying, but her way of expressing desire and love is so foriegn to you that you can't see it. It is likely as frustrating to her as it is to you. Try so see her side too.
Until I learned about the 5 Love Languages it didn't dawn on me that my H was doing his damnedest to make me happy by working overtime/making lots of money (acts of service) and buying me things (gifts) when what I wanted was physical touch and quality time. That's why we were both so upset, because we were both trying so hard to show our love for one another in ways WE understood, not the ways that the other one wanted.
Maybe Mrs Geek is doing things that she misguidedly thinks are loving. Also, when things are such a sore spot any jesting about sex at all can go awry pretty easily. Let's hope she's trying to keep a light mood instead of trying to say hurtful things.
I wasn't sure if I mentioned it in my original post, but I also read the 5 love languages... or should I say "listened to it" - our library had it as an audio book. I devoured it in about a week of driving to work. I even converted it to CD (since my wife's car has a CD player) and gave it to my wife... she listened up to LL3 I think and has been too busy since then.
On the positive side, it did show me that she shows her love in HER way and that I can show her love in HER way. The only downside is that she did not get to hear LL5 (physical touch) from someone else other than me. She knows that I need physical touch but feels like it is just not in her capacity to give it on the frequency I need.
She is trying hard though. Last night I sat on the bed by her watching TV and she reached over and rubbed my back. It is her way of saying... "I see you are there beside me and I know you enjoy being touched..."
What is her love language? Do you use this love language enough with her? You might also want to read "Passionate Marriage". This is extremely helpful in helping yourself.
I believe her language is a mix of "quality time" and "acts of service" - what makes her feel loved is when I can take care of a problem BEFORE it bothers her ~ such as picking up a pile of magazines on the nightstand... the problem is that her love language almost requires me to read her mind...
Mine is simple - I'm a mix of "words of affimation" and "physical touch" all she has to do is say I'm great at something or touch me...
My H and I are working on it, though it isn't easy. Actually it's probably the hardest thing I've ever faced. Then again, he's the most precious thing in my life so it's worth it.