citizen_cat wrote {{You mean some gals don't.....swallow?}}
citizen_cat, some gals do not do oral at all. I got "A" lick back in the stone ages. W could not go through with it. Good, hot sex 3X a week was good enough for me. Also stroked, and grabed often. Why mess up what we had. My opinion is, why make someone do something they are not comfortable doing and damage the R.
And to all the ladies out there, do not swallow if you don't want to, do if you want to.
OG Lou. Different strokes for different genitals works for me.
Quote: It also sounds like the job is giving him a sense of entitlement and he is getting caught up in what he deserves. Now before we all castrate him for this, let me say that I am (was???? cripes, I hope I'm getting over this ugly habit) prone to this. I think, Man I am a good lookin woman..how DARE he not want to have sex with me! Does he KNOW how many other men would give their eye teeth...blah blah ad NAUSEUM. (emphasis on the nausea part)
I was thinking about "entitlement" regarding this issue too. Isn't it completely a value judgement? Mr. Corri thinks he deserves to be "blown to completion" because he works so hard. You sometimes think you deserve a man who desires you because you look so good. I used to think I deserved a hug when I tried to be a nice wife. I think when we talk about "deserving" something we are talking about our perception of sexual economics outside our relationship. Of course, talking about sexual economics outside our relationship is only useful if our spouse shares a similar view (doesn't think most people only have sex twice a year.)wants to be in a relationship(doesn't have romantic vision of hermit living like my H) and believes that outside sexual economics matter(unlike Mr.HP who knows HP will never divorce).
Does Mr.Corri live in a world where he can get what he wants for the price he is willing to pay? I think Corri surveyed the women in order to answer this question. What price is Mr.Corri willing to pay in order to get what he wants? This is the question she needs to ask him.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I am not defending his actions. He agreed to not release and yet he did. That was wrong. However, I was just trying to point out how men can feel about BJ's. What I don't understand is how women believe that it is OK to NOT FINISH the job. Can you imagine a man giving his wife head up until 2 seconds before orgasam, and then backing off and maybe finishing with fingers? My wife would KILL me if I did this. As we get into it, she grabs my head and pulls me real tight until the orgasam ends. So why should men not get the same respect and treatment? I will also say that not all sex is equal. What I mean is that ORAL sex is FAR mor important and pleasurable to some of us guys then vaginal sex. Heck if I were to rate different kinds of sex acts, then vaginal sex is one of the lower ones on the list. Sex is truly a MIND game, it is all about how you PERCEIVE the event. And Oral sex is really high on the PERCEPTION of it. I think sometimes that LD people get caught up to much in trying to do the physical act and never really understand the mindframe of sex.
Had a convo with the H last night... and I think both OG_Lou and NOP are right.
My H is having an affair. With his job.
I opened by asking him why he thought our relationship was getting off track and he immediately asked me 'what makes you think it's getting off track?' I ignore the dodge and answer the question.
This segways into him wanting specific examples of what I am talking about. For instance, I say, and I bring up his rude behavior from last week, and the mouth shot incident.
He dodges again. "I said I was sorry, and I really am! I guess I just go lost in the moment."
ME: "I know you are sorry. Sorry isn't the issue. I'm OVER being mad about some sperm in my mouth. That isn't the issue. The issue is what was behind the act. Why did you think that was okay to unload in my mouth when we had just discussed that very thing? Why do you feel it is okay to treat me as disrespectfully as you have been treating me this week?"
He tries a few dodge answers, like, I don't know, I just wasn't thinking... which I averted and did not take. When that didn't work, he went on the attack, and told me how I wasn't being affectionate, how I was doing this, that and the other thing... and I said, "we aren't talking about me right now. We can get back to me and what I am or am not doing in a minute. I want to know why you think it is okay to treat me that way."
Silence.
Then I pulled out GEL's line (thank you!!) and I said, "you may not know the answer right now, but I'd really like for you to think about it so we can discuss it tomorrow."
Then I said, "it is clear that neither one of us are happy about the current status of our relationship. What are you actively doing to change that?"
Him: "I'm giving you your space, I don't ask for sex two nights in a row."
ME: "I don't recall saying that I needed space, and how is not asking for sex two nights in a row action oriented?"
HIM: "We have sex. You don't do it again the next night, and it'll be a week before we have it again. You only want sex once a week if that!!"
ME: "When have you asked me how many time I want sex in a week? When have I ever stated that I only want sex once a week."
HIM: "You say it through your actions!!"
ME: "No, YOU assume that is what my actions mean. What question have you asked me to either confirm or deny YOUR assumption? When have I ever stated that I only want sex once a week?"
HIM: "YOU control this relationship. YOU decide if and when we have sex!! I just have to accept it the way it is and that sucks!"
ME: "You know situation X that is going on at your work and how you've had to confront Mr. Soandso about it? That's actively changing something. Otherwise, it's like you saying... Mr. Soandso says it has to be this way, it's always been done that way, and I just have to accept it. A good leader doesn't do that. You do what needs to be done to change something that needs fixing.
"No, I do NOT control this relationship. You WANT me to control this relationship so you don't have to work at it.
HIM: "I have said things."
ME: "No, you take pot shots at me, like your remarks from last week. I do not recall a single instance when you have come to me and said that you are concerned about the state of our relationship and wanted to figure out a way that WE will work together to fix it. You tell me what you don't like through your shitty insults and you wait for me to fix it.
For months I have watched you watch our relationship spiral out of control. I want to know why that is okay with you?"
HIM: "Because our relationship sucks and that's just the way it is."
I think it would have hurt less if he had just slapped me across the face.
I suppose the only bright spot in this entire fiasco of a relationship is, after all the stupid mistakes I've made, all the MC we've been through, all the books I've read, all the things I've tried... I know in my heart I have left no stone unturned.
As I layed in bed in my rather stunned silence, I realized that I was also at peace, in a strange sort of way. I don't feel guilty, I don't feel like a failure, I don't feel defeated. If nothing else, I have exhonorated myself of responsibility for his half of the relationship.
I agree that sex has quite a bit to do with how you perceive the event. That's where I feel quite a few LD's run into the wall...they perceive it much, much differently that their HD partner does. Changing a person's perception of almost anything is a very difficult thing to do.
I know for me when it comes to giving a BJ my desire to do that for my partner has a lot to do with that person in particular. I've known men I wouldn't even go there with...why? Their behavior about it turned me off. I used to gag too because I hadn't learned the best technique for me to use...let me tell you that feeling of not being able to breath when someone else has gotten into the act and holds you there can be a scary feeling, especially when they go too far into your throat. Not to mention that the gag reflex really can and sometimes does kick in...no matter how accomplished you are at giving a BJ.
For some women simply the texture of semen in their mouth makes them gag. It has nothing whatsoever to do with their desire to please their spouse. I used to gag to the point of almost vomiting and I'd have to run for the bathroom to spit it out (I know lovely picture huh?) because I couldn't physically swallow the semen without gagging on it (yet another picture a man would love to see)....it was uncontrollable.
I have since learned the best technique for me to use to avoid gagging...but you know what that took me time to learn. And after having bad experience after bad experience with that I wasn't sure I ever wanted to learn it. I still didn't have a problem giving a BJ, but to the point of completion was a problem for me for a long time. In order for me to learn the best techinque for me to use I had to be in complete control during the BJ...no holding my head down (I still don't like that).
All I'm trying to do here is point out that it's not necessarily a rejection of the man if a woman doesn't finish him off to completion....just giving you another perspective on it since I did used to have a problem with this myself.
{{{{{Corri}}}}} Just one word of advice from a guy's point of view. Don't base your thought that you've left no stone unturned on his statement that "Because our relationship sucks and that's just the way it is." People say things in arguments that just come out. These statements are not necessarily The Truth. They aren't thought out. They just come out. Don't end the relationship based on this statement. It's possible that you could mention to him today that he made this statement yesterday, and he wouldn't remember it. I don't know if it's a guy thing or just a people thing.
I'm sorry that you two are having communication problems, and that he is so insensitive.
On the bright side, maybe our divorces will be final at the same time and we can have drinks together!
There are many problems with your reasoning in this post. You are ignoring the fact that men ejaculate from their penis when they come and women do not ejaculate from their clitoris's. Liking or not being bothered by the taste of semen is a personal preference for an acquired adult taste along the lines of liking the smell of musk on a sexual partner or the taste of whiskey. If I were a man, I would want a sexual partner who didn't mind the taste of semen because I prefer a sexual partner who is sensually into and open about all the aspects of sex and the human body, but I wouldn't take it as a personal affront if someone wasn't. (okay,okay I used to take this kind of thing as a personal affront, but I don't anymore ) Everyone has their limits in this regard. For instance, some people like to urinate on their sexual partners. That would be way past my limit and I'm sure yours too.
There are variations in preferences among high drive people too. For instance, I prefer being f*cked to getting head, so when I give my H head to the point of orgasm, which I do quite frequently, I am being sexually generous because I enjoy giving him pleasure. I'm not concerned about some tit for tat exact exchange in any given encounter. You say that you don't particularly enjoy vaginal sex, but is it in you to simply f*ck a woman good and well for the reward of her pleasure and the affirmation of a job well done?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Those conversations really do hurt don't they. Kudos to you for holding on to yourself and keeping the convo on track. My guess is you probably hit some nerves of his, perhaps he'll take some time and mull the convo over (my H does this) maybe something will sink in.
I'm not sure what it is I'm feeling. I think I may have to wait a few days. I don't hate him. I'm not even mad at him. Like I said. I'm sad. And at peace in a very bizarre, detached kind of way. I hadn't even thought of divorce... besides, I'd have to do all that, too, for it wouldn't fit into his schedule.
Corri: He communicates on a level with my 5 year old.
What...does he use up all his intelligence at his job every day and then come home and regress into THAT, just for you?
I see a war going on at your house. He is not interested in anything you have to say, unless it is "I want to have more sex with you". I know this stance cause I've adopted it a time or fifty. It seems as if you are both holding out on what the other really wants and needs. You are approaching him, wanting to break the gridlock and he is digging in deeper. Why? Because he wants it to change, but he wants only YOU to change while he stays exactly the same--perfect.
What has his response been to the concept of meeting YOUR needs and having quality conversations? Too busy? Stressed?
I think he needs to revisit the concept of marriage being a two way street.
) Everyone has their limits in this regard. For instance, some people like to urinate on their sexual partners. That would be way past my limit and I'm sure yours too.