I tend to agree with you on what thiose 3 things that men need. And I KNOW that these 3 things are curretly happening in H's life. But, eventually the adventure of the affair, the battle (of her drama of divorce and her H) ,the beauty to rescue may just be someone who is needy and needs constant reassurance, WILL wear on my H.I know now that at least one of his LL is words of affirmation-this OW was telling him what a good person he was, (crap, what did he tell her about us that she needed to say that?) I know I did do this LL with him, buit maybe it was not the words he wanted to hear? No realtionship can have these 3 ingreedients on a long term basis, its too draining!! I know my H,or at least I thought I did. The last time he did this 12 years ago, the woman was really needy, money ,and attention wise. He used to tell me his problems and ask what I thought about it. They lasted a year. But this time he is keeping fairly quiet. In the beginning when he was still here, I would ask questions about her and he would tell me stuff. Now, I don't ask but every once in a while I get some glimpse into their sitch. It does sound like he is committed to her but sometimes I can tell he feels its a little more than he bargained for. During one covo he told me of her H banging down the door, she calls police, my H has to go comfort her. I say "sorry you are having this problem".He says "well, its not really my problem, but now its become my problem". He may never come back to me, but I do think without major effort on BOTH of their parts in their sitch, they are not likely to have anything long term, and if they do, it'll always be fraught with tension and uncertainty. I know I have to GAL, and soon. This is killing me. Really. I get little to no sleep, I lost 30lbs (looks good, but hate this diet plan!),and I cannot focus on anything. Friends and family are tolerant but I know they all wish this was over. They are mad at me for not persuing taking half of the assets. Like,,the confusion of two weeks of no contact, then he'll call and say he wants to take me for a bike ride, then he always cancels-by text message. He'll tell me in one breath that he can't be with me/trust me cause I had A, (21 yrs ago-for 2 1/2 months) , and cause I did not admit it till last year- yet his affair 7 years after that lasted a year, now he's involved in this A .It took him a whole year and a half to leave me. During that time we bought a home, two motorcycles, and in betwen periods of hell, discussing MY A, managed to have some good times. I know now that he was using the past as a cover to do what he is doing now. I sure hope he knows what he's doin... Look I am not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But, I know I am better for him than her. Our R could be excellent if he could give us the same attention he lavishes on her. There is help ot there-I found it ,and I am certain that if given the chance, we would make it. Its hard to be excited about a new discovery, nd not be able to share it. I am like, Hey I found out all this neat stuff, and we are BOTh lacking in some areas,but its OK, I know how to help us!!! Frustrating. I/ He will just have to let this play out. I want my H to be happy, always hoped it was with me, but he seems to need this .
Oh yea, I learned my lesson BIG TIME. NO more mrs. fix-it. Apparently less is more to him, and instesd of him appreciating my efforts to make his life as easy as possible, he felt like he had to seek someone to help. Again, I don't think that is a long term strategy for a relationship. The helping thing on the scale that they now have is gotta be a relationship killer after awhile. I now know how to balance it, I think. No slaying of dragons every wek, but hey -can you please fix this vaccuum for me??? I do think the divorce will still happen.I don't want it, don't need it, and will still try to avoid it. And for all I say on here, you all know that I still love him.
Just a quick note, I do think that guys like to feel needed and unfortunately he is eating up the neediness of OW. I used to rely on H TOO much, so that was one of the 180's I put into motion immediately after this started. I started to do things for myself. Something as insignificant as buying my own cigarettes. He noticed that right away and made a comment (months ago) oh miss independant huh? Now that I did that tho, he expects me to do it all the time. In fact I feel like the errand runner now, when he used to do all of that stuff. Now he just sits home while I run to the store for something. But I guess that is one of the small things that he didnt like about me. I guess what I am learning that there should be a happy medium. But right now, I am doing it all, which sucks. H hardly does anything for me anymore. When H wasnt living at home, he used to bring me something to eat late at night, bring me breakfast...now nothing. Today in fact he went to McD with D and knew that we were supposed to go to dinner, and didnt even bring anything for me. So here i am now, hungry while they ate without me. I am noticing now, that because I started to be independant, H doesnt try that much at all. But then for christmas he buys me a $400 necklace, why? Mixed signals...I hate them.
The only thing you can do now in your sitch is lay low. Dont give too much info on what your up to. YOu told me to go light...you need to go dark. Dont answer every call, as much as you want to. And believe me I know, Just dont. He has to start wondering. OK. Watch how much he contacts you after you dont answer a text or a call or two.
SUN- I'd LOVE the opportunity to NOT answer the phone! He -ain't- callin', and he's not coming around Maybe there is problems with OW, or maybe he is just having too good of a time with her? . I did mail out that copy of the bill today for our dogs cremation to him.He said on the morning we had to take him that he would pay half, no problem.When we got to the vet , I wrote the check for the $$. I said to him," Its ok, we'll settle later,ok?" He said "Yes". My sister said "don't be surprised if you hear from him now, and get attitude ("you had to send me a copy of the bill? why didn't you call me??)or he may just use that as an excuse to finally come over and get those divorce papers."
If you notice that your H is not trying to do things for you, what about you asking him to do something? Its too late for me to pull the damsel in distress routine, but not for you-is there no home repair you need done? Toilet stopped up? Computer crash? Car needs oil change? How 'bout a back rub? And a $400 necklace? wow- thats a pretty GOOD mixed signal to me, I'll take those kind of mixed signals every day
On the still hoping for positives side... 3 days into '05 and he stil hasn't asked for papers yet. I am luching with MIL and SIL tomorrow, they are driving 2 1/2 hours to come see me, and then we are all going together to see SIL friend. I want to try hard tomorrow to not talk about H that much and just enjoy them.We are having our "christmas" tomorrow as well.This is so hard, I think of them as my family, I've known them since I was 17! I am 47 now. My SIL says she thinks of me as a sister, and that is forever. During our last divorce I was very close to my SIL, and my nephew, and did lots of stuff with them. But then we moved back to Fl and that stopped.My SIL is having a rough time with her H he is emotional abuser, and hard core italian male, from the old school. If I ever win lotto, she is out of there.
I had to go house shopping today, and took my sister with me. We had fun, but I could not find one decent house in the 100,000- 130,000 range everything I found on the net and went to see was pure disappointment. I am so afraid the house will sell quick and I will have to just grab anything. I do not want an apartment cause its like throwing money out the window. I just HATE all of this- I'll miss my nice home with nice neighbors. Sure wish I could win lotto so I could buy H out. My mortgage is pretty low, much less than I would pay for apt. If the good lord has a plan for me that includes me having to endure all of this, I sure wish he'd let me know what it is, cause right now I feel like I am standing at the edge of the tunnel and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel -its the train comin through ....
I think that your H will be quite upset when he receives the bill in the mail. But since you have little contact with him, what is your choice.
Well I did something tonight. As much as I was positive after reading your advice on my other thread about being lite, not dark. I told H that I want him to file for divorce. I just feel like I have no other option now. He agreed. Then I told him that you know that is not what I want, but because he wont give me any respect about OW, that I cannot go on living like this. And if we continue this way that D will one day hate him becuz of what he is doing to mommy just like when his father did it to him. When his father started his A (7 yrs ago) with internet girlfriend, H was pissed/hurt. He saw the emotional pain it put his mother through, and yet H is following in fathers footsteps exactly. It is like he took what his father did and used it as a how to guide. Tonight I saw an email from OW's 12 yr old son. H sent her son a pic of our brand new dog. And in the note from son he wrote, Teutul got much bigger since the last pic you sent me and say hello to Emily for me (Em is our daughter). Then I went into our digital camera software and saw that OW's email address was in our software again. I deleted it a few weeks ago, which meant he sent her pics too. Then I noticed that there were two pics taken of our daughter (she got stiches last night) so he sent her a pic of our daughters newest boo boo. I sat there in dismay and said to myself, this is never going to end. Also I know that the cellphone bill did not come and it is due next week. Not thinking that H hid it (because he hasnt hid it in months even tho there are all the damaging phone calls on it) so I went online and saw that the bill has been paid on 12/23. So now he is getting worse. Going back to hiding the bills. Let me tell you that this man has never paid a bill in his life. I have always taken care of all the bills. He has only written one check out in his life. SO I am sitting upstairs while H is downstairs and thinking, what the hell do I want to do. This is getting out of hand and like I said, worse. He is backsliding. So I go downstairs and tell him that I think we should divorce and he agreed. I am partly thinking that this will shake him up a bit, since I have never really said to go for the divorce and meant it. So I guess this is my last resort technique. I know that might be an idiotic thing to have done being that I am fortunate that we live together and it gives me the chance to DB all the damn time, but I just cant do it anymore. He spent ALL day online with OW today. I had asked him to fix the vacuum today and he didnt. We were supposed to go out for dinner tonight at 5:30 and instead at 4:00 he went to McDonalds, knowing that we had plans. I just ran out of steam. I do want to thank you for the sound advice, and I know you might think that I am crazy, but I am tired of crying, I am tired of H and this crap. I have told him a hundred times that I dont blame him for having feelings for someone else, I blame him now for not squashing them because he knows what he is doing is wrong, yet he doesnt try to stop it. I will keep you updated on how this unfolds, I am sure I have a rough couple of days in front of me. My biggest challenge will be not to go back to acting like nothing is wrong the day after saying something so potent. Then it looks as if I didnt mean what I said.
Keep me updated on H's reaction to bill. I think just by knowing men and obviously our H's all have alot in common, your H will not be thrilled with your method of delivery. But its not like you can just drop by and say oh by the way... SO let me know.
(((((sun))))) I am so sorry you are going through this. But I do understand how you could have gotten to this point. There are some days I sat looking at those divorce forms and thought about driving to his place and saying here ya go, call me when I have to meet you at the court house. What will you do if he says he does not want D? Have you said he will have to move out? The only thing I don't like about LRT is that you have to really be willing to take the consequences, it cannot be an idle threat. BUt if you are at that point, and it sounds like you are, iys ok to want to move ahead in your life. The positives should outweigh the negatives, and if they don't it you have to decide what is best for you and D.Let me know what happens, sometimes it takes a day or two to kick in.
I am panicking now that you said what you did about the bill. I could call him, but evryone says to stay dark, so i figured this was the best way. I wrote a note on the bill saying "Hello! They finally sent me a copy of this. Thank you so much for offering to pay for 1/2 of this,I appreciate it very very much". And I drew a cartoon picture of our dog on it. Its not like I sent a self addressed stamped envelope with it or anything, and it took me a half hour to finally figure out what to say so it would not sound like "hey YOU wanted to do this, why are you not now???" So I don't think I looked/sounded bitchy or anything. If he calls and says anything about why I mailed it to him, I can always say, at least I got ya to call me
Which brings me to my latest dilemma. Have not heard anything fro him since 12/25, that xmas text that I initiated. Is it ok to send an e-mail saying "hey, long time no talk, how are ay? Miss talking to you" Or do you think that would just promt his ignoring iyt, or asking for the papers?
Thank you so much for your much needed advice. You have been such a huge help to me, more than you will ever know. Well update; As you kow last night I told H to get a divorce and he agreed. Well today he is acting different. He is actually peppy and nice and sent me various text messages today. He will not acknowledge what happened last night, but I know that he did not end it with OW, because he has his cellphone in the usual position, facing the wall so I cant see if a call comes through. So I am still left here wondering what the hell do I do. I truly do not want to continue like this with OW in our life. You are right, I have to make a list of the pros and cons and what I expect out of each day. No affection initiated, so I have alot to think about tonight. I think for tonight I will just keep my distance in the house. Today H went to the dr and he possibly has an ulcer. I SO wanted to say, well if you werent trying to lead a double life, than maybe you wouldnt be having these problems....But I Bit my Tongue!
For you; texting. I am like you, I want to have some kind of contact with H. When H was not living at home, I used to initiate contact via text all the time. Just to put me in his mind if even for a moment. I found that if I said something mushy, then NO response. If I said something snide, I would definately get a response, and if I said something funny then most of the time a response. Maybe you could text him about the bill coming in the mail. Something like, "Finally the vet bill came, sent you a copy ok?" Not pushing for the money, yet it should jog his memeory. Definately not pursuing so it is still like you are remaining dark. I dont know, the worst thing that will happen is that he doesnt respond and it left you no different than if you hadnt text him at all. Let me know what you decide to do.
For me right now, I am going to put the list in my head of what I need to do on a day by day basis. I know I am fortunate that H is at home, but my heart is hurting ya know?
I know about hearts hearting. And I am happy to help you with any advice, although I don't know too much and MY H is not here, so I can't say that I speak from anything other than common sense and because I am on the outside of your sitch, I may see things that you are missiin. And hey, you are from NY, so I gotta help ya. For years- H, me my sis and BIL would go into NYC to see the tree at XMAS , shop at some stores, eat pretzels, and eat at the Stage or Carnegie Deli. Some of the best times I ever had.
I noticed you are keeping your distance in the house. Why? this just gives him chances to text or call. I realize he may go do it anyway, but damn Sun, this is your home too. I HATE it when OW has the balls to text or call my H when he is here. I know it pisses you off, but ya gotta act like its funny or something . I know I got really upset and pissy when my H actually picked up the call, but previously I had learned to smile and look amused when the text alert went off, or if it rang, I'd say theres the call! with a smile on my face. Like you know they are being stupid, and it amuses you. C'mon ,he turns the phone so you don't see the call come in? what is this -5th grade??? I think if he sees you not getting upset, it loses some of its quality. And, how about having someone call you? Now you can pick up the phone check the # and say Hmmm, let this go to voice mail, I'll get it later with a sly smile on your face like you are amused, like it may be a date calling. Of corse this only works if you have seperate phone that he cannot check. Its also 5th grade, but done once or twice, can be effective. It happend to me by accident when my sis called, but made H think it may have been someone. He immediately made comments about it being my date, and you can tell him you didn't expect to have your old man here so late. What a rush! He still gave a crap to be at least a little jealous or curious! But if he can bust you, it'll only make you look pathetic, so don't do it if you can get caught. How are things goin as far as other parts of R? Not bein nosy ( yea, i am, sorry- its been a while...how bad is that ,I have to live vicariously through other people now???) If your love life is goin ok still or you are trying to improve it and getting good results, it can help go a long way towards making her look like nothin'. All he can do is imagine her, you are right here. Did you find out what this guys LL is yet? How 'bout yours? I am sorry if i seem pushy, I think I am transferring my desperation onto you. I am just so frustrated for me/you cause you have him right there, and damn theres gotta be something we can do to get you guys on track!!! Have you tried what i said the othernight about acting as if she doesn't exsist? can you pretend its SEARS calling when his phone rings? I know this is sooo hard cause its not Sears, its OW and she wants to keep her mental hold on him. If he is acting differently, maybe the push to ask for D was good, why was he peppy and nice? Did you tell him he was gonna have to leave? Is he still being nice tonight. I can see why no affection was initiated, hard to get lovin when you are askin for a D! When does he think this divorce is gonna happen. If you are serious about this sun, you may want to have a target date in mind.Do they still make you do a legal seperation for 1 year befor D in NY? And are you regretting your decison to ask him for it?
I definately am not regretting asking for D. As much as I love him and KNOW that if he were to give up OW, our R would be back on track 100%, but in the same respect, I have to have respect for myself and not be treated like he can put one over on me. Or be that wife who ignores the fact that H is having an A and continue in a loveless marriage.
I agree whole heartedly about how he turns the phone towards the wall...Like I cant pick it up and look at it...DUH! And believe me I pick it up, check the call timers, messages, etc and if there is a text message from her, I dont hesitate in deleting it. Same with the yahoo messenger account. I delete those too, and any emails she sends. She used to like to send him e-cards daily, so at that time I used to fight fire with fire and send them too (of course H has no idea that I have his password). And then I would delete her e-card so he would only get mine. IT seems like ever since H moved back home in Sept the e-cards stopped. Now I know she did not know he moved back home until Oct so I think she stopped sending them because she saw the contact between them dwindle from 200 minutes a day (Literally) to short sperts of convos. But she does know now that he is home, but I am sure that he told her he just moved home for daughter. It also seems ironic to me that we havent ML since shortly after OW finding out he moved back home. That was at end of Oct. So unfortunately sportster, you cant live vicariously through me on that one. BUt I have been able to get him to kiss me at least once a day, until last week. Last week he went an entire weed without kissing me and when I told him that he said no way. But of course since last nights convo he has not even come close enough to me for a peck. We do sleep in the same bed, but it is very lonely knowing I cant spoon him while I fall asleep. Even so, he purposely goes to bed after me, because he has to stay up to talk to OW on computer. If I do stay up too late, he accuses me of waiting up for him (which I am of course), then he angrily goes to bed. For the most part, we get along, we enjoy doing things together and laugh (even amidst a fight), so that is why I dont understand his ever famous statement of "I AM JUST NOT HAPPY." IN fact the only time it seems to me that he is not happy is when I am interfering with his ability to contact OW...Like a specifed time that they talk??? I do believe it is depression, but he does not want to go on medicine. We got him to try medicine in Oct and just as it was starting to work he went off of it claiming it made him have the jitters, which was true, but there are others out there! My focus when I did talk R with him this past week was that he needs to go back to the dr for meds, if not for me or himself but for his daughter.
I think the reason he was peppy with me and sent me texts today was because this morning when he left I sent him a text saying that I do love him...of course no response. Then later I sent him a funny text about his dr appt (possible ulcer) so he responded with a joke right back. Then later in the day he texts me to ask what time his appt was and then kept texting me funny things about the appt. Then the last text was..."Meet me at chinese". So I did, then when we left restaurant he calls me laughing telling me to slow down Mario...He always says I drive too fast. But then thats where it ended. We get home, and I give D a bath, he watches tv, and while I was trying to put D to bed, he went to bed without saying a word. So I ask him if he is going to bed for the night and he said I think so. But I know he will get up around midnight and play on the computer and talk to OW. I really dont know how he functions at work with how late at night he stays up to talk to her. I did not ask him to leave, but I know that he will if he goes through with filing. He will go to his moms. He will not make me leave because of our 2 yr old. He would push for the sale of the house if we D. But little does he know, I will fight to keep the house BECUZ of our D. I heard of one person who did that and H had to pay for 1/2 the house until child was 18. That gives me 16 yrs...LOL I ordered LL last night online, so it has not arrived. I hesitate stopping at the store at night, or going out after dinner because it gives H opportunity to call OW. So I stay around the house alot, which I know annoys H. I used to go out all the time....Hey running to store,etc. I do have to start doing that stuff again, because its not like one more call that day is going to make a difference. By the time I see him when I get home from work he has already talked to her plenty. I get home at 5:30 and he gets home at 3:30 so they have a date on the computer everyday.
Sorry this post was primarily about me, but like I said, I appreciate your input and for you to give me advice you should know all the details right?
You didnt mention if you sent the text. Did you? Sun
Nah, I didn't send the text. After my wonderful day with MIL and SIL, I felt so good. I told them about the letter and they said, hey it was his dog too and he should pay, and you did not send a nasty note.
So, my darkness continues. But hey, its Jan 4th and he still hasn't asked for the papers!! You know, those papers are done in twos, his half my half. Why did he not seperate them and at least go get his half done so then he would be jsutified in pushing for them if he wanted? Strange man, my H.
Sorry to hear that there is no "going to pleasure town" for you . Have you tried to entice him in any way? You know what makes this guys motor run, or does he refuse you. I know how you must feel that he is involved w OW so why do i have to do this, or give it up to him. Do you want to reconnect with him, sounds like ya do. I am hesitant to try to tell you to seduce him, cause if he refuses you, its devistational.Example: Right before all the nice physical hugs kisses went out of this, H and I were making out and groping like teenagers. he proceded to kinda help me along, it was great, but when i tried to reciprocate, he said "I'm ok." he was refusing me. I was confused, but let him leave. Was he trying to be true to her, by not letting it escalate too far? Well ever since then, we have not had any contact that can even be called sexual. I've had a good hug or kiss, but never even get the chance to try to seduce him. It must be hard for you cause he is RIGHT THERE! You must have amazing self control, to not try to jump him LOL Before he moved out, I knew he was going but we continued to sleep in the same bed.Almost every night he got some kind of tickle or back rub. Alot of times I would make sure it went further- We had ML a few times and it was the best in years. We kinda joked about it saying we would both probably not be gettin any for a while so we were making it count! He didn't refuse me.So thats why when he said I'm ok, really, i was floored. Believe me I plotted plenty -and wore some really nice stuff when he came over. I can tell even now when I see him that we still desire each other, and I still think that may be a teensiest part of the reason he doesn't come around much.
As long as you don't get caught, I am ok with you deleting anything she sends him. If she asks him did you see such and such, you may get busted. So be careful.
Shame he will not try different meds. Has he been officilly diagnosed as depression? Or is that his evaluation. If this starts effecting his job, that will be a wake up call for him as well.
I gotta go to sleep soon, its been a long day. Nice day, but long. I am so lucky to have the MIL and SIL I do. I felt very loved today. They said you are still family to us, we ain't gonna get rid of you.
