If I were in the dating world today, if I even had the slightest suspicion that a woman was LD, I would never see that women again. Now that I now what a LD women is like, I will never consider dating one again (knowingly). The problem is how do you know for sure?
Cemar, Let me ask you this: If you were back in the dating world, would you want to find a girl whose drive was higher than yours? One who made you feel that you couldn't keep up? Would you want the feeling that she was disappointed in you because you just couldn't do it another night?
Whaddya say?
(besides the obvious: that aint gonna happen type stuff!)
HP asked: What is the consequence if she loses her temper again? What motivation does she have to not do this anymore? ---------------------
I'm not trying to motivate her to control her temper. She's an adult and is responsible for her behavior, just like me. I'm not threating nor have any intentions of divorcing. I'll have to make the best of what we have and I assume she'll do the same.
I've told her for years what the effect of "blowing up" on me was (and is). I told her for just as long that the temper and sexual rejection issues would one day make me not care, period. Unfortunately, that day has come.
To her credit, she's made some giant steps forward over the last year. She's tried some new things sexually and has cut down on the number of times each month that "she blows". (I'm sure the HDM will have fun with that one. )
Here is my dilemma in a nutshell. Either her feeling "stressed out" or "overwhelmed" is a legitimate reason for exploding on me or not. It leaves me feeling like a lousy H for causing it (if I buy into her argument) or mistreated and worthless if I didn't. (If I'm not responsible but she cares so little for me or the effect on our M to react in this way, what good am I?)
I used to try to alleviate her cause of stress. I found out that is impossible. Every time I'd solve one problem, she'd add another stress producer to her schedule. It's just the way she is. (She even admitted it the other day.)
So, as much as I've tried to change my feelings about it, each outburst brings me to the same place. I don't care if we ever have sex again. Ladies and gentlemen, meet a new LDM!
My W is a gifted person and a tremendous mother. She has a wonderful heart and is a great friend to all who know her.
Here's how it would go: We all have a SSM get-together and at the end of the night everyone of the HDW would tell me how they just LOVE my W and then ask me how I could be so mean to her. I'm left sputtering, "I know...I know". When we get home, my W "loses it" (accusing me of looking at all the waifs with Dolly racks and complaining about how her week was too busy to go to the party). I throw her into the car and speed back to the party so everyone can see for themselves. As we reach the door, she transforms into an angel who can't understand why it was so important to return. The HDW join her in shaking their heads at me in disbelief. I conclude that I am indeed insane and try to live out my remaining days in silent submission.
Well, if you are doing things that ADD to her stress, then cut it out.
If there are ways that YOU can control the amount of stress that she heaps upon herself, then do it. If the kids are in too many activities, stand up for yourself and call a halt to it.
By consequences I meant PM style, such as "Wife, I need you to try to get control of the outbursts or the result will be that I will fall out of love with you." Then treat her with compassion and love and do your part in minimizing the stress. If she has another one, remind her (while HOY) that your love is not unconditional (who ever came up with that asinine idea anyway) and that you respect yourself too much to put up with crap. Then get out of there and do something that does not include her and allow her to stew in her own misery by herself. That is sorta what I meant by consequences. If you routinely listen to her blow, try to make things better, molly coddle her and treat her with kid gloves while she's blowin, then there is NO motivation for her to do anything different. If you tell her in plain and clear language that this treatment is affecting the way you feel about her, then refuse to participate in it completely while going out and enjoying your life, she will stand up and take notice. You will not be doing "the dance" with her.
Btw, I feel compelled to point out that in no way, shape or form are you an LD male. The very fact that you remembered my Dolly Rack comment leads me to believe that you're alive and well on the inside, just having some resentment issues that are making your desire for your wife go south.
I absolutely don't add to her stress! I am so laid back about what happens that you sometimes have to poke me to see if I'm alive. I never complain about the condition of the house or anything else for that matter. (The one exception used to be complaining about not having sex.) I'm the one cautioning her about taking on more, suggesting we eat out, and offering to hire someone to do what she's stressing out over.
There's no point in telling her that IF she doesn't get a grip then I'll fall out of love with her. I've already told her that it's gone too far for me. The best I can do is HOM, walk away while she blows, and hope she doesn't follow me to continue.
The "unconditional love" comment made me laugh. That's undoubtedly her favorite phrase/accusation. She says my love for her is SOOO conditional and hates it when I respond, "Yeah...and?"
There once was a man from Nantucket who M my W and went LD.
Well, Barn, you might have to take a page out of Jenny's book and eliminate the things you can so that she is left to face her own issues by herself.
Meaning, she lost weight and her H had to admit that it was not her weight to begin with. Now he is on the financial thing, but once the finances settle down, he will be faced with the knowledge that it wasn't that either.
So hire someone to clean the house. Order in food. Whatever it is that she needs help with, or complains about, DO IT. Don't wait for permission or for her to say Yes that will help me out. Just do it and if it doesn't help, she will be left alone to face the music. If she purposely adds stress upon herself so that she can have something to be mad about, she will have to face that fact. Lots of people do this and to us laid back folks, it looks like insanity doesn't it!
Yeah, the unconditional love. That's a can o worms, aint it.
I don't love my H unconditionally. I don't think anyone really loves another human being unconditionally, although I could make a pretty strong case for it with my kids. I guarantee that if you were to start treating her badly (or continuing to do the things she hates) over the course of a lifetime she'd be hard pressed at the end of that life to find one thing she liked about you.
So you love her through her faults and weaknesses and warts. We all do that for our spouse. But there is something about someone who allows themselves to be treated like crap that makes you dislike them even MORE, paradoxically. So you should love her in spite of her warts, but you should also require that she make a concerted effort to knock it off. I'm not sure exactly how you should go about that, but there are good book out there on anger management and anger within marriage. Perhaps they would be able to offer some concrete suggestions.
I am an active person so my approach would look something like this: Next time she's on a bender, load up the kids and take them out for dinner. Leave her absolutely alone in the house to deal with her anger. If she is still angry when you get home, take em to the movies. Bring them home at bedtime and make it clear that you will do the same thing the next night if her behavior continues. Do this every time she goes off the deep end. Why should you and the kids be subjected to that?
Otoh, I have bad days too and there are times I am just barely holding it together when H walks through the door. If I am snappy, he calls me on it. Usually by saying, I did not do anything to deserve that. I understand your day was bad but don't take it out on me.
Then I will go to him and apologize cause he's absolutely right. He stays calm and does NOT play the game with me.
I hope things get better and good luck to you and the Mrs...
First. Long ago, when the earth's crust was cooling and my wasband and I did some counseling with Steve Harley from Marriage Builders.. my wasband complained that he wanted/needed/deserved unconditional love. Steve said, not realistic. Wasband was horrified, as this was his strategy to make me the "bad" guy.... but Steve explained that love IS ABSOLUTELY conditional. As humans, we fall in love because certain conditions are met-- we are courted by someone who is nice to us, considerate of our wants and needs, makes us laugh, we enjoy being with them, we find them attractive. He asked "if you did not find each other attractive, did not treat each other in a civil way, did not enjoy time together.... would you have fallen in love in the first place? Of course not!
Basically if someone ceases to meet the conditions for us to love them, our love fades. If someone resumes meeting those conditions, then love rebuilds.
It's theory that makes sense to me, so I just thought I'd pipe in.
Now, on your decision to become LD.... I'm not sure you get to pick. I think we are "wired" one way or the other. That said, I recently made a very similar decision-- but rather than LD, I decided I needed to go ND (NO D) for a while. The situation is complex-- but it is a short term strategy. I'm just on sabatical. I don't think I could simply decide no more sex forever. But I have pretty successfully put all that warm, wet, slippery, tingly, wonderful stuff more or less out of my mind for now. Well, maybe not totally out of my mind, but I will not act on any of it except solo. (along with this is a steadfast decision to figure out someway to avoid ever getting involved let alone married to a LD, and I consider this equally important to avoiding ax murderers and random psychopaths)
So while I get what you're saying, I don't buy it as a long term solution. It's not realistic. If you take this approach, you are avoiding the real issue just as much as your W is, by citing random stress. The two of you risk being struck down by lightning, as she cites endless stresses (the kind we all deal with everyday, the kind that seem less stressful after great sex) and you plead your case as a man who does not care about sex (while secretly you want the 25-40 every bit as much as I do).
I just had a weird idea for you. Why don't you install some video cameras in the main living spaces in your house? Let your W know that you are doing this and tell her you're doing it because you want her to be able to see how irrational she becomes during her angry outbursts. Either she will stop having angry outbursts because she doesn't want to see herself having one or she will forget about the cameras and can have a learning experience by viewing the tape. Of course, she might just "attack" you in dark corners of the house only.
I guess I'm making this wacky suggestion because I have a mother with "rage" issues and I know that it made no difference how many people told her she was out of control. She had to figure this out for herself. The funny thing is she still "goes off" sometimes, but she knows that her reactions are extreme and doesn't expect anyone to take her seriously. For instance, she's currently angry at my H because he's unemployed, so she called me and vented for about a half-hour in an inappropriate manner, but she started the convo by saying "I respect the fact that you are handling your problems in a calm and mature manner but...." and she ended the convo by saying "..but (H) is a nice person, so I'm going to pray for him.". Then H got mad at me because I didn't hang up on my mother because she was insulting him. It isn't pleasant to have to deal with angry outbursts and it doesn't really matter how justified it might be.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I'm sure you don't add to her stress, nor, most likely, is there anything you can do to lessen it. OK, of course, if you WERE a uncaring, lazy H, you of course could add to her stress, but then most likely you wouldn't be here, either.
Point is, it is her who has to deal with these issues, you just have to draw strong boundaries. I agree with whoever said remove yourself and the kids from the house when she gets that way. If you can, I like JJ's suggestion too. Is there someway you could have a video camera ready, so when she blows you could get it on tape? It may be that showing it to her is enough to get her to realize what she is doing?
I would suggest you do what I'm doing. Get an exit strategy. Maybe if she realizes you're serious? Who knows. I wouldn't advocate this for everyone, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest people like this - who go out of control - don't get it, have no motivation to stop, until their whole support system is taken out from under them. You are 'enabling' her, just by letting her do that and coming back (or staying) each time. Telling her you don't love her, or that you've had enough isn't enough. You're still there - she still has you to 'hold onto'.
Thing is, you have to mean it. You have to willing, and able, to leave. It really may take that.
Ok, your sitch is different from mine, but not by far. You've followed my story, you know I've done just about everything but stand on my head to get H to listen, instead, I get the same kind of angry outbursts I've been getting for 16 yrs. He won't go to counseling, won't talk with me, won't take responsibility for his part of the R (not to mention the housework...)
So what do I do? Learn what I can to keep myself safe, next step is to try, once again to get H to a counselor (we're talking psychiatrist this time). If that doesn't work? I might just drop that I visited a lawyer today...show him the filled out D application(no, I haven't done it yet)...
Yes, I hope - pray - he 'calls my bluff' along the way, I hope any one of these steps is enough to wake him out of whatever fog he's living in. If not?
Like you, Barney, the very last thing I want to do is D. I DON'T want to leave my home, I don't want to break up my family. But I also don't want my kids to grow up believing their father's behavior is acceptable. As NOPkin said to me once - taking no action is a decision as well. Your kids are watching. They do realize what's going on. And they are learning from whatever you do - or don't.
Barney-- this morning I'm thinking more about what I posted to you last night, and in fairnessm, I need to add that I was in a similarly situation. I did not have the balls to leave. I know how hard it is to be in the situation, and personally, nothing I tried worked or even made much improvement. (and in my case, it was a SSM but there were other issues as well)
I resigned myself to "laying in the bed I had made" and knew that my life/marriage would never ever be better than a 4 on a scale of 1-10. I thought it would be "frivolous" to actually leave the M, when there were still some good things, and we were mostly civil, and he had not done horrible things (ie beaten me, or committed crimes). Short of those heinous things, I did not think I was "justified" in leaving-- so I had to settle for being permanently, hopelessly unhappy.
So I just wanted to tell you, that while I tell you to be strong/honest/true to yourself-- I was not able to do it for myself. I WISH I had been able to, but I wasn't-- the only reason I'm out of there is because HE decided to end things. That sort of "stings" too-- even tho I know it was a good thing, in the big picture.
) 
