When I do the {{"give me one example of a time that I've gotten my way over you".}} My W comes up with examples of what I did wrong at one time not connected to the current subject. I say that her answer is off subject but do not get anywhere.
{{Hon, I need to talk to you...you may not like what I have to say...but this is really important to me so hear me out}} This works sometimes if I get dead serious and HOM just right. If I say (you may not like what I have to say) W tells me to not do her thinking.
From your post and how my W reacts to R talks, the general thing I get is to be less serious so I do not sound accusitory.
I ask if she can see MPV but W is convinced I want to control how she thinks. W says I come accross as "this is the way things have to change" or there has to be a certain outcome.
I have been told that I smile strangely when I communicate with people during stressful events.. Even been called Mr Rogers, the former childrens program personality.
OG Lou. Trying not to be a wuss, trying to be strong without overbearing.
If I was considering getting married to CeMar and he presented me with his list of sexual demands, needs, preferences as part of some sort of all-encompassing pre-nuptial agreement, I would think it was ridiculous that he spelled it all out in such detail, but I would have no problem with agreeing to his terms.
Quote: Are you saying that you want your wife to lust for you 24/7? Are you saying that you want her to be thinking, "Oh, God, look at the body... I have to have his cock in my mouth RIGHT NOW."
I don't lust after my H 24/7 but my range of receptiveness does run from "willing" to "want his cock in my mouth" excited.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that CeMar's list isn't completely unrealistic in an objective sense, though I do agree that it is quite unrealistic in terms of his situation and what he seems to be willing to do to improve it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I'm nothing if not honest Actually you hit on part of what I was trying to get across..."I" had to want to explore sex, to find out what some of these other people (who raved about it) were talking about.
I can guarantee (for myself anyway) that I wouldn't have wanted to explore that with someone who was constantly knocking me down emotionally/verbally. So now I use my past experience to help me empathize with my H in his current LD state. I know how negativity affected how I viewed what my ex-H said to me...he had already made up his mind I wouldn't do what he wanted, so why should I? It became a vicious cycle. I could feel his resentment and that bred resentment in me for him too.
That's interesting...I wonder if your demeanor sends her a mixed message. Just out of curiosity is it possible that you're walking a double-edged sword here? See what I'm thinking is that if someone used a "Mr. Rogers" type facial expression with me....I might feel patronized.
I think it's really important for you to be very honest and upfront with her in a way that is true to you. If that means having a serious face, then do it...this is an important issue for you.
Also, my H used to try to put words in my mouth to...saying things like "I never said that"...when I was telling him how something makes me "feel"...so I would tell him..."I didn't say you "said" that, I said this is how what you said/did makes me feel". I've had to reinforce that a few times, but now he doesn't do that to me. Our initial C told me during one of my one-on-one sessions with her that his doing that was a control tool for him.
When your wife says something like that to you, you may say back to her something like this. "No, I'm not trying to control how you think...but if you can try to see my point of view, or find something from your past experiences to relate to this situation maybe you can understand how I'm feeling. It doesn't mean you have to agree with my POV." This is the current tool I use with my H and it's working for us right now.
Quote: 1) I want her to kis me when we wake up, when we go to bed, and maybe meet me at the door after work. Some kisses can be pecks, some should linger, some should be "French". 2) Have sex at least 3x a week, if not more. 3) Flirt with me. 4) Cuiddle with me. 5) Hold hands IN PUBLIC. 6) When we are with other people, I want her to sit by me, to TOUCH me, to caress me. 7) Tell me she loves me. 8) Come to bed NAKED with me, rather then completely covered up. 9) Give me BJ's to completion. She now finds oral sex digusting, except for her. 10) Express an interest in my body! I work hard on it!
That's a tall order, Cemar. Have you made up a similar list of things you are willing to do for your W to encourage such changes?
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
Frankly, I don't think CeMar's list is a tall order. Remember, he was asked by GEL to create a list of specifics. He's not saying that he'd be unhappy if one or two of the items weren't totally fulfilled. A lot of the stuff is behavior one should expect from their spouse, e.g. telling him that she loves him, holding hands, kissing. My W does this, although I haven't gotten passionate kissing in ages.
I think he did a good job in answering GEL's request. I would have somewhat of the same list, with the following modifications: 2) have sex at least once a week. 9) BJs? I would like her to at least try...and let me try to do her as well.
Hairdog, who salutes CeMar for a great response to GEL.
I actually thought that the trickiest item on his list was "Act like she can't keep her hands off of me.". I don't know how to "act" like I can't keep my hands off of someone. Either I can or I can't. Also, I think CeMar would come to realize that he might prefer at least a little bit of a tease sometimes. I don't think he really wants a wife who is more HD then him. I think he would be happy with a wife who was just a little less HD than him.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I agree that most of the things on the list to me aren't unreasonable and CeMar...thanks for putting the list in writing for us and yourself.
Now what is it you are willing to do (meeting her love languages) that will help encourage her to begin knocking things off your list? Once again reminding you...not things you think she should like/need...but the things she really does.
I'm sorry I hate to be repetitive, but have you had that really serious HOM heart-to-heart talk yet? You may have mentioned before if you had, but I don't remember seeing it.
Without getting the communication down between the two of you, you are going to have a very hard time getting your list checked off.
I have to defend myself here. I never said what CeMar was asking for is unreasonable. I needed clarification for my LD mind. So.... I asked for clarification.
If CeMar ever gets around to responding, I will ask him further questions. Like... out of this list, what is he willing to work on first. If he hands this list to his wife, complete as it is with no other discussion, she will probably shut down.
If he were to say, "this is where I'd like to be SOMEday... pick a few things on the list you would like to start with... we can work toward the other things."
I think CeMar needs to help her by sharing his inner-most feelings with her, and if he doesn't know what they are, he needs to think about it. He needs to be encouraging. He needs to find out what she needs from him, and not accept "nothing," or "I don't know."
With their religious background, I think CeMar should haul his wife off to one of the Marriage Encounter Weekends. The fact that she is WILLING but not at all desirous means to me that there is a whole lot to work with there if he is willing to change himself.
CeMar and his wife need to figure out how to fan the flames of desire. This is not something that comes rushing back at you...you have to light a match and get the kindling going before you get the bonfire, and you have to do it TOGETHER. That's where I was going with this.
No need to defend yourself....you are only asking CeMar to do the very things that many of us have. Unfortunately sometimes we don't always get a response to some of the more pointed questions...i.e. "have you communicated this to your wife".
You have a lot of adivce/wisdom to impart on this BB...don't feel you have to defend yourelf.
