First I need to tell you that even if I don't reply, it doesn't mean I don't read your messages. I subscribe to responses via e-mail...I read them there, even though I don't always come back and respond. I just don't feel like I have any privacy at my computer and hate to have that big DIVORCEBUSTING screen open when I have the H and kids around. I'm pretty sure my 13 year old son has seen it at least once when I'm on the computer.
Anyway...thank you all so much for your responses, they helped me to get through the last week and a half. H and I were both off work between Christmas and New Years. As expected, everything went fine. He was on his best behavior, practically an angel.
Anyway...back to the issues at hand. First of all thankyouthankyouthankyou for the ego boosts...believe me I need them. Especially from the guys.
Really, I know you're right. I have a list of things to say to him if he EVER goes back to that place. A big one is "What kind of people do you think these girls are...chasing after you when you say they KNOW you are married?" I wouldn't TOUCH a guy who was dating someone else...what kind of person purposely tries to break up a marriage??? You're really moving up in the world with these "hot girls" who have nothing else going for them but a need to milk every last penny out of you.
Interestingly enough, I read that "He's Just Not into You" book last week. Mostly read it to "pre-screen" it for my 16 year old. But I knew it would do me some good too...for those of you who aren't familiar with it (it's getting lots of press now), it's more or less about how if a guy treats you like crap, don't overanalyze, make excuses...just dump him and get on with your life.
Of course this is about dating, not a 24 year relationship. But the book reminded me of how I used to treat guys...I didn't put up with any crap. And H chased me like crazy. It also got me thinking about my other thread in this forum and how everyone keeps saying I'm co-dependent, etc. After kind of stepping back for a week, I'm realizing that what really seems like co-dependent behavior is really what I was getting out of the "Divorce Busting Book", be his friend, try to analyze what he's going through, don't put too much pressure on him to make a decision while he's in the middle of his crisis".
Soo...where am I now? After a week of "my hubby, the saint" I'm feeling a little more objective. I can see now why I was willing to fight for him. I also hope he can see why I'm worth fighting for...it seems like it, anyway.
But, that's it...no more free ride. I will not let him get away with going to that place ONE MORE TIME!. For some reason, he doesn't seem to think he's cheating on me because he's not having sex. You and I know he really is. It's not like he's going once every couple of years for a friend's bachelor party.
The DB books have gotten me a long way...this time last year he was prepping to file for divorce...and he did file. I know I would be divorced right now if it wasn't for this board and those books. But it's ultimatum time. The DWI may have saved my marriage, he was spinning out of control in those two weeks. Frankly, there is a decent chance he'll get off easy on that one, he's gotten a lawyer (he's got that "lawyer insurance" through work), it's his first DWI ever at 46. Frankly, I'm hoping he gets a pretty stiff sentence. I can't believe I feel that way. If he gets off, gets his license back (all he's got now is a piece of paper that says his case is pending in court so he can drive...no official "license"), he'll be free to go back to bars and even if he doesn't, I don't know what it will take for me to trust him again. He went back to work today and I know I'll be stressed out once we hit 5:30 or so...wondering if he's coming home tonight. I know he will come home TONIGHT...but that feeling will be there again and I hate it.
So...I'm not so sure what the point of THIS particular long, rambling response is. I started off wanting to thank you for your support. I realize that I am more desirable than those 21 year olds...but, yeah, I'm still insecure. It's helped me immensely to have you all reassure me.
And I guess, rereading my original post, that the real problem isn't so much *what* we're doing in bed, as the lack of emotional reassurance I'm getting from him. This last week has been better. It's not like he's said he loves me...it's not like we're actually ML instead of F'ing...but there's a little more connection.
And NOPkins...I guess I know I should let him chase me, be a little less "easy". That's what I used to do...at some point though he quit chasing. I also thought that maybe in some way by chasing after him, making him feel attractive and sexy, I may be in some way meeting the needs that are being met by his stripper buddies. I think I need to find some sort of balance between the two sides. Thoughts on that??
At any rate, I know that as of at least three weeks ago, he's had no contact with them. There was no sneaking out for phone calls, no obssessively hiding his cell phone, and the few times he left the house, he came back within his alloted time
Going back to work puts new pressures on both of us, we'll see where things go from here?
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
Quote: --------- And NOPkins...I guess I know I should let him chase me, be a little less "easy". That's what I used to do...at some point though he quit chasing. I also thought that maybe in some way by chasing after him, making him feel attractive and sexy, I may be in some way meeting the needs that are being met by his stripper buddies. I think I need to find some sort of balance between the two sides. Thoughts on that?? ---------
The fact is that you can't be his stripper. What he is getting from that 'exchange' is not what he thinks he is getting. He is buying a fantasy, not reality. At some point in time, he will have to realize that he must separate fiction from reality. At that point in time, if the two of you want to play stripper, then have fun.
Don't reward wrong behavior. It doesn't work for kids, it doesn't work for spouses.
Do work on your relationship. There is a weakness there that needs to be addressed.
He needs to respect you, and he needs to re-earn your respect. Before that can happen, he needs to realize the seriousness of the slippery slop he is/was on.
Back to the sex, you can be reasonably open and available to him. You can have whatever flavor of sex you are both accustomed to, but I would strongly recommend that you not play stripper with him, at least until your relationship is healed and he has gained a clue or four.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
OH No I can't imagine "playing stripper". Right now anything stripper related turns my stomach...seriously. Of course THAT PLACE is right off the highway with big signs and I drive past it like 4 times a day picking up my kids & dropping them off from school...which means he drives by it at least twice a day too...ugh.
H has been a perfect angel and I wish I could relax but I can't. I still am not getting any kind of emotional/romantic reassurance. He's working on the house, making future plans with me, but I just feel like he's not really committed, like he's doing what he should do, like he's got a good angel on his shoulder reminding him what a good person I am and not to screw up his kid's lives and that he really wishes he loved me, but that bad angel can drag him away at a moment's notice. I think he thinks if I were thinner/hotter he could love me though I realize there's a lot more to it than that.
So his actions are saying "I'm trying to work on this" but I'm not getting any words to that effect. Sex, but not really hugs or kisses.
We are getting along great. He has broached the subject of his home equity loan again...funny thing is it would be a very sensible thing to do. HOWEVER I just don't trust him enough. He's only mentioned it quickly. If he brought it up in a situation where we'd be able to really talk (no kids in the next room, etc), I'm half tempted to tell him that maybe we should forget the home equity loan, sell the house and get a divorce. I'm not quite sure I'm ready to play that card. Remember he filed for divorce about this time last year. It would not be an idle threat...there's a very real possibility that he'd happily jump on the idea. But either we'd just get the inevitable over with, or it'd scare him enough to realize whether he really wants me or not.
I just can't get past the feeling I have that there is still someone else, somehow, maybe even someone at work, that he at least has a crush on. He is 46 years old but very attractive, I know there is a young girl who works there...I just have a feeling it's her. An interesting thing to note is that sometimes when he gets especially crazy/stressed, one of the things he brings up is how he'd like to quit this job, but can't for financial reasons. (he works in another city about an hour's drive away). There's lots of good reasons for quitting, besides her, but maybe she's one of them...maybe she triggered all this last year? Who knows. I can't help thinking she's a factor.
The sad thing is when it came down to it, all my hunches have been right. I try to deny them...but no matter how I try to reason these things away, it turns out that I'm right. I do hope that, at least, the feeling that I have that he's telling me the truth about not having sex with anyone else is right??
I have up and down days, today is obviously a down one...
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
If you have a strong 'gut feeling' or a hunch about adultery it is usually correct.
Those hunches are our mind's way of telling us that there are a lot of little indicators that are painting a larger picture.
Tell me more about why you are suspecting.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I haven't been here for quite a while. I have a different take on your situation. Obviously, I don't know what's going on in his head.
Assuming you didn't want to have sex much and left him begging - perhaps this is payback time. That you left him hanging so many times when he was needy that he's enjoying not being powerless anymore. The strip joint is just a nice place for him to go and, perhaps, he's struck up a casual relationship with one of the girls.
I haven't been following your situation so what I wrote here is a GUESS. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.
IF what I said is true, you need to strengthen yourself emotionally. He may have little or no pity for you. Perhaps he feels you had little for him at some point. What you need now is respect. Doing whatever he wants won't get it. Don't even think about stripping. Save that for after your relationship is healthy because right now it would be unhealthy for you to do.
My guess is that you're obsessing about this and that you need to spend time with good, supportive, healthy people doing good, healthy things. You don't even have to talk about your troubles with them. Just a smile and a kind word would do you a world of good. If you go to church go to some extra events there. Spend an evening with some friends and LAUGH. If he's at home taking care of your child he's not at the club ;^)
I would really like to know how things are going and how you are.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Thanks for asking about me, I've been meaning to pop in and post, it's just hard to get some "private time" to do so.
As far as the affair thing, I'm back to where I was before. I think he is having an EA with that young girl at work, though it may be unrequited. I believe there could have been more to it in the past, but I don't think that he's ever had sex with her. I still believe him when he tells me that. How close he's gotten to sex, I'm not so sure.
His cell phone bill comes any day now, probably tomorrow. Frankly I'm scared to find out who he's been calling, but I WILL check. His time is pretty much totally accounted for, so there's not MUCH he could be doing right now.
As of now, he's still well behaved. He's having to deal with a LOT of repercussions from the DWI. For example, we were going to finance a car for our 16 year old, the loan was in place, after we signed the papers, they said "and we just need to make a copy of your drivers license". Which stopped the whole deal because the police confiscated it and issued a temporary permit...and on Friday someone asked to see his DL at work, he drives a company vehicle so they have a legitimate reason for asking.
We were able to finagle the car a different way, so my 16 year old got her car.
He was supposed to have a court date on Monday the 1st but his lawyer didn't show up so they rescheduled it, now he has another month of limbo. I *almost* feel bad for him but karma's gonna get ya, you know? I hate to see him so stressed out though, it's not helping any of us. I probably would feel sorry for him if I felt he was taking responsibility for his mistakes, but I think he is sort of passing the blame off at this point.
I so desperately want to tell him that all of these problems are the results of the "party" lifestyle he chose to live those few months, and it's not the fault of the cop he pulled over or even my fault for denying him that loan because I was afraid of how he would spend the money. He needs to realize he can't live that way and still keep his safe little life too. But I'm also tired of him putting me in the "bitchy nagging mommy/wife" role so I guess he needs to figure it out on his own.
So, I guess things are going OK? I'm a little more detached right now...trying not to play his head games. It's hard though, I'll be perfectly fine and then something he says will just hit me funny and I end up tearing up.
One day a couple of weeks ago he said something like "there's a big difference between being in love and being infatuated with someone". He didn't really elaborate, but I know he was talking about some of his little girlies. He wasn't necesarily saying he was in love with me...he did say a little later in the conversation that it would be easier to be infatuated with me if I'd lose some weight. Sounds like a crappy thing to say and well, yeah, it is...but it sort of fit into the context of the convo we were having about working out. I'm afraid he thinks that if I lose a few pounds (I only really need to lose *maybe* 10lbs or so, I'm not obese or anything) that he'll be more turned on by me and every thing will be peachy keen. We're still having pretty regular sex but I could go for a little more quality and quantity.
I've gotten in a couple of hugs and to be honest, I wish I could just get him to give in to all the stress I know he's feeling but I don't know how to penetrate that wall. Really the only reason I know about his court date is that the lawyer left a message on the answering machine about missing the date and I saw the letter on his desk.
Any tips on breaking through? I know he's trying to be strong but I wish I could get him to confide in me a little...
I need to go to bed. Thanks again for "listening" It helps to know someone's thinking about me.
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
I am late getting back to you this time. So it is my turn to be sorry :-)
On the affair front, as long as there is a third person in the relationship, healing will be slim to nonexistent. I know that you know that. As for what you can do? Monitor until you have proof and it is time to expose.
I am very glad that you are being cautious with the money. It is very easy to want to placate or even 'bribe' the wandering spouse, but it would be a huge mistake. For what it is worth, I think you are taking the right tact with your situation.
Quote: ------------------- One day a couple of weeks ago he said something like "there's a big difference between being in love and being infatuated with someone". He didn't really elaborate, but I know he was talking about some of his little girlies. He wasn't necesarily saying he was in love with me...he did say a little later in the conversation that it would be easier to be infatuated with me if I'd lose some weight. Sounds like a crappy thing to say and well, yeah, it is...but it sort of fit into the context of the convo we were having about working out. I'm afraid he thinks that if I lose a few pounds (I only really need to lose *maybe* 10lbs or so, I'm not obese or anything) that he'll be more turned on by me and every thing will be peachy keen. We're still having pretty regular sex but I could go for a little more quality and quantity. -------------------
This could be a good opening to send him to a website that deals with brain chemistry and infatuation vs. love as a choice. I am constantly surprised at the number of people that don't have a basic understanding of this phenomenon. I always thought that anyone that has ever had a drink or done drugs would understand. It sounds like he is at least open to the fact.
If you need to lose weight for you, then do so. As for his comments, he is just trying to blame you for his desire to look at strippers. It also makes me wonder how many strippers he has seen in settings other than a club. Maybe he needs to see just how 'real' they look, and how much they resemble any other woman. All that glitters is not gold :-)
Quote: --------------- Any tips on breaking through? I know he's trying to be strong but I wish I could get him to confide in me a little... ---------------
The only thing I can recommend is to continue what you are doing. Loving him from a position of strength, fixing the bad contributions you have made to the marriage, and keeping up a loving, but emotional distance.
Let him know that if he wants to talk, you will listen. Do understand that listening does NOT mean to acquiesce or agree to his world view (which is pretty skewed right now), it just means that you are acknowledging how he feels.
He needs to learn to acknowledge your strength instead of always trying to be 'the strong one'. Always being strong, is an impossible to live up to standard.
No one can always be strong. Marriages are about working together. A marriage should provide for mutual goals, reinforcing each others weak points, and providing balance to overly strong positions.
Please keep us posted on your situation.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: > I am late getting back to you this time. So it is my turn to be sorry :-)
No need for apologies...glad to have you stopping in to my little thread here.
Well, my little V-day gift was that when I checked his most recent cell bill, there were no "suspicious" phone numbers, at all. He also got me a little v-day gift, but the nicest thing, honestly, was that I had a "Happy V-Day" e-mail when I got to work in the AM.
As for the affair thing, I'm just not sure there's really something going on. He probably has or had a crush on her, but I don't think anything's really happening. I even look for expensive lunch bills like he's "eating for two" but nothing...I don't think he really has contact out of work. And he may have come to his senses enough to realize that it's just a crush? Not sure. Guess I'll keep it to myself till I see some real proof.
Do you have a favorite site that discusses brain chemistry vs love? I am not sure I can get him to read anything, to be honest. He's a smart guy, not much of a reader though.
One of the big R problems we have is not spending any time alone together. I wish I could get him to go out for dinner or something. It's hard to break the "boring wife" mode when we never see each other out of the house. I just can't get him to do anything. I guess I should say I refuse to nag him into going out to dinner with me. I want him to *want* to do it, and I know if I pressure him into it, he'll just feel put upon.
We survived doing taxes last weekend, overall had a good, if boring weekend. Had "not great" sexual moment over positions...in the middle of sex, of course. I was guiding him into the "me on top" mode and he essentially refused. He figured I was getting "upset" about it and acquiessed, but it really made *me* question his need to control me...just one other way he's trying to keep me under his thumb. I have never really had this problem during sex before, just to be clear. I think control is the big issue, it might really be the core of our problems.
*II would like to lose a few pounds. I used to be very fit and I let it go somewhat when I was working nights 4 years ago. This is something I would do for me. However, I just can't get past the idea that no matter what I'm doing, wearing or not wearing, he's comparing me to the strippers. It's in my head a lot. And maybe part of the problem is that I *used to* look like that. I think I have mentioned in the past that he is a perfectionist. And though he's 5 years older, he has held up very well.
Again, I had the "stripper body" thing going on, so it's not so much the reality of the girls in other settings, I think, as a "41 year old body" issue. I agree with you as far as him blaming me for his attraction to see strippers. Not sure what it will take for him to see the truth.
Quote:
The only thing I can recommend is to continue what you are doing. Loving him from a position of strength, fixing the bad contributions you have made to the marriage, and keeping up a loving, but emotional distance.
Good advice, thought I'd just quote it so I can read it again.
Quote:
He needs to learn to acknowledge your strength instead of always trying to be 'the strong one'. Always being strong, is an impossible to live up to standard.
and if there are any men out there who can help with experiences on dealing with this issue, it would help. I got him to talk to me last night about his job, DWI problems, etc, but it really turned into..."I'm OK, do *you* feel better now that you dragged me in here?" He turned it into my issue, as always, but at least he did talk to me for awhile.
Anyway, dragging it back to his childhood, I know that he and his brothers (4 boys) weren't even allowed to cry as children. Frankly I suffer from the same issue, he is really the only one I have ever allowed to see my emotions. Maybe that's one of the things that's been so hard for me, the one person I can trust is just not there.
Yeah, I realize that puts even more pressure on him. He's been a real jerk the last year, but what triggered it probably is that he's under a lot of pressure...of course, aren't we all?
Gotta get back to work...thanks for listening
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
The other thing: I found out he charged $30000 to credit cards last year...some of which could be attributed to the fact that I wasn't working part of the year last year and he had the bulk of the bills to deal with...but of course that wasn't really the problem...
I think I deserve an Academy award, frankly...
Slowly all the roles we act out become our Identity,
And in the end we are what we pretend to be.
-Jerry Cantrell
I also thought that maybe in some way by chasing after him, making him feel attractive and sexy, I may be in some way meeting the needs that are being met by his stripper buddies. I think I need to find some sort of balance between the two sides. Thoughts on that??
I've been meaning to pop in and post, it's just hard to get some "private time" to do so.