I'm just trying to figure out for myself how much of my H's LD has to do with relationship problems we still have that I might be denying and how much is just him being LD him. I don't understand how our relationship could still be driving his lack of arousal. We generally have a pretty mellow, even light-hearted relationship most of the time these days. In fact, my S16 is taking a Psych class in high school in which he is learning about categories of marriage. He told us that we have the type of marriage that people achieve after many years when they've worked out all their conflicts and are just cozy and companionable. This is the impression that we give to even people as close to us as our son. The thing that is most striking to me in this regard is that my H's drive recently took a nose dive at a time when I was feeling pretty relaxed about our relationship and pretty LD due to some gynecological problems which my H didn't know about. If some sort of relationship pressure was affecting his drive, it was relationship pressure that was totally in his imagination. He was feigning insomnia to avoid my advances when I had no intention of making advances due to cramping and I had no idea that he wanted to avoid my advances because things had been going pretty well.
HD, I found it interesting that pity could turn you off. I can see how this might have been true back in my pathetic low self-esteem days, but I was pretty confident (confident that I was sexy, not confident that my H would see it that way- sigh) in my approach with the fondling. I would say his reaction was emotionally somewhere between irritated and threatened. Which leads to another dilemma for the HDW- How to be sexually bold enough to turn on a LDH without being sexually bold to the extent that you threaten your LDH while simultaneously being dispassionate enough to not be upset if you are rejected and passionate enough so that your approach is genuine. I can sometimes manage most of this, but rarely all.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Jenny, I am at a similar place as you and have been here a while. Our relationship difficulties have been sorted out and, yet, he still wants his sexual independence. I get the impression that he wishes sex were not such an interactive experience (sorta kidding, but not really). He wants it when he wants it but doesn't like the feeling of having to give it when I need it given.
He cringes when he hears me describe how his sexual behavior appears to me.
Just a random thought.... it hit me a while back and I can't remember what made me think of it.
Maybe, just maybe, the whole LD/HD thing is exponentially enlarged when it is used as the avenue for a power struggle? It's about who is in charge, who is going to get their way.
On occasion, I have wondered whether I would be better off playing it coy but then "succombing" to seduction that flat out announcing I want sex, and lots of it. In the first scenario, he "wins" when we have sex. In the second scenario, maybe he thinks he "loses" if we have sex?
I am not as good with words, maybe one of the brilliant minds will undersand and explain it better?
JustJenny asked HD men to reply {{Can you imagine a situation in which your emotional state would be such that an attractive woman fondling her breasts in front of you would not cause you to become aroused?}} JJ, in general it would arouse me. Here are some more situations and actions I would most likely take. I assumed when you did this infront of your H, you wanted more than to arouse him, you wanted him to do his husbandly duties.
Married situation under normal circumstances, hay I am ready Freddy.
Married, W manipulating for some small favor, let her play with herself a little longer. It is fun to see her do the baiting work sometimes.
Married, W trying to manipulate over large item or major relationship issue to get me to change my opinion or behavior that compromises a major belief of mine. Get lost until W was rational or the issue was worked out.
Dating in an exclusive R, things going well. She is hot, lets satisfy the itch if we are working toward getting married.
Dating in an exclusive R, things going poorly. Is this make-up behavior or is it control behavior? Lets work out the differences first. Do I want this woman to be the mother of my 2 to 6 children? Maybe later.
Casual new dating partner. Flatered but do I want this woman to be the mother of my 2 to 6 children? Lets get to know each other better. Most likely not.
Stranger I just met or first date. Way overboard. Is this woman a hooker. Is she this open to anyone. Not for me. I want an exclusive R and exclusive sex partner.
Stranger I never met. Way over the top. Flasher, Hooker, mentally ill, crabs, STD's??? Free sex might cost more than I want to pay.
Sorry if I do not come across as a normal HD male steroytype. I am not religious but believe in some standards that deal with people not taking advantage of others. I need the emotional connection that goes along with sex for it to be really good.
I guess I saw how much teen, early 20's girls suffered when they got PG and were not married. Also saw some guys get married because girlfriend was PG and now the guy felt overwhelmed with responsabilities, or lack of educational oportunities.
OG Lou. Normal drive (2 to 3 X /week) with standards.
Quote: Maybe, just maybe, the whole LD/HD thing is exponentially enlarged when it is used as the avenue for a power struggle? It's about who is in charge, who is going to get their way.
Oh, yeah, I'd agree with you 100 percent, 2ndchance. My W may have issues with abandonment, past emotional abuse, and maybe even those weird evil/male/sexdrive issues, but when coupled with her need to be IN CONTROL, there is no budging her.
Which is why, I think, that the "I won't spend my life in a sexless marriage" statement is perhaps the only way to move toward my goal. But only if I am willing to back it up with action: moving out of the bedroom, moving out of the house, legal separation, etc. Either way, I'm moving toward my goal, which is to have a live wherein intimacy is a normal, natural occurrence. I just hope it is with my W and not with someone else, post-Divorce.
Love the examples. Yes, it is VERY situational. Nonetheless - my bra is off to JJ for her bad girl approach. I feel as if anything of that nature would just be considered too much by my H. Maybe not. However, the current sitch doesn't lend itself to this - would look pathetic on my part (as per Lou's scale of seduction vs subversive).
Karen1 wrote {{my bra is off to JJ for her bad girl approach}}
Love it! Only a woman could say something like that. Much better than "my hat is off to you". It helped me distance myself a little more form that women's issues class I studied in in college about 15 years ago and the anti male things on TV.
OG Lou. Trying to be sensative, but not overly politically correct.
If anyone sees something I am doing or saying is wrong, please chime in.
Lou, your examples really made me think... I was sort of taken aback by them. Partly in a good way-- ie that you would be aroused by, but certainly be judgemental of a woman doing this in some scenarios-- the ones where you'd be writing her off as LTR material. I was just sort of confused about the idea that in one or more scenarios, you would see the woman as manipulating-- doing this for some ulterior motive? Like trading sex for vaccuuming? This does not compute for me....
2ndChances5 I look at women as if trey were going to be long term friends. I generally do not think about women in short term relationship or how they might meet some tempoary need I have.
If I seem judgemental of women in some of the situations, replace the word man where the word woman is and think you are the woman observing this behavior.
Does it help you if I say I was never into casual sex in less than commited relationships where one of us were thinking "maybe marriage."
I was assuming JJ was flirting with her H and wanted him to have sex with her. So I replyed thinking along those lines. Maybe i gave anwsers she was not looking for.
It took me a while to realise some women liked sex as much as guys do. All I ever heard till way after I was married was guys were crazy about sex and women only did it to please her man or to have children. Guys wanted one night stands, women wanted a marriage and did what was necessary to catch a guy and get him to marry her, sort of a pay check.
One class in college (1990) dealing with dating, the older women compared notes with the younger girls. The girls said they would have sex with the guys "to do them before the guys did us". A peremptive strike so to speak. The older women did not see the girls logic. After the women and girls hashed things out, the girls said the would not consider doing what they had done 2 years ago in the future.
Supposedly it is different now. More women like sex. More women are independent and earn a good wage. Some women do not want a H or children. More women are less inhibited than in the 50/60's. Just think the Brady Bunch and compare it with the Osbornes. I had my nose to the grind stone too long (work and responsibilities are important) and still have some of those 50/60 values. I am changing some but still have some boundaries that I choose not to change for now.
{{Like trading sex for vaccuuming? This does not compute for me.... }}
2ndChances5 you would have to copy the situation for me to respond correctly. Probally relates to women using sexual favors to manipulate a male, not about attraction between the couple. And what is {LTR material}. 2ndChances5 it helps me to know how old and gender a poster is. I guess I could read your post to see how what I write and how it relates to your situation.
Just trying to let the HD women with LD H's see how one guy thinks in some situations. OG Lou.
Lou, thanks for the clarification... LTR material is Long term relationship material, ie someone you'd take seriously.
I am in my 40's, was married for 23 years. It's never been part of my agenda to use sex or the promise of sex, as leverage for something I wanted. Frankly, I usually just wanted the sex . It was the end, not the means to the end.
Naturally I have seen on TV the scenarios where women use sexuality for bargaining, I just had not thought of something that tacky and obvious being a practical reality. I thought of it like other implausible things you see on soap operas, and Desperate Housewives.
I think your reasons/situations in which you would not follow through on a woman fondling herself show that you are one of the good guys. They make sense, and show that you are able to think with the big head, even if the little one is tempted. This is a good thing, IMO
. It was the end, not the means to the end.