The HD guys who are having sex with their wives are frustrated as all hell, but they are still ML to a person who is acting like a woman. Their mental picture..societal and cultural mores support how she is acting, though it is still hurtful, no doubt about it.
But here I am, faced with a man who is acting like a woman.
It causes no end of confusion and icky feelings within me.
And yes I realize that this is MY problem to deal with and not anything that my husband is required to fix.
Mostly, I'm just commiserating with my sistas, with no intent of EVER letting my husband know how I feel. If he ever found this site and began posting, a la the NOPS, I'd sure feel bad about calling him a chick.
Quote: Men who do not like to be told what to do, or controlled.
I agree that gender differences exist, but that control thing often cuts across those lines. Ms. HD, for instance. The women might be more given toward the martyr route of resistance, but I don't take to kindly to being pushed/controlled/cajoled either.
I *do* recognize that men have to deal with that cultural expectation of being the initiator, strong, manly, turgid . And then women have the flip side of that where they're supposed to be the warm, loving, affectionate one.
I see some variations, but there are all these common threads that run between the ssm posts. The LD wives manage to express their resistance by similar actions/attitudes as do the LD husbands - withholding affection, sighing, doing that weird physical proximity thing (forcefields UP!), doing it for England and making d*mn sure the spouse knows, that well-timed snarky comment, etc.
I've been dipping into the archives and the LD wives managed to give their hubbies the same sort of grief several of the HD wives have received. And it was two steps forward with one step back, and sometimes a totally spectacular tumble all the way back down the hill.
While I bow my head before JJ's analogy prowess, our relationships can be compared to two people in a row boat. Both of you *have* to be rowing. When you look up and notice that you've been by this bush before, then it's a pretty good indication that your spouse ain't rowing with you.
"Look a$$hole, we both have to row the boat MOST of the time" would probably be considered a bit over the top, I guess.
But eventually, I think that is what it takes. That the recalcitrant spouse gets on board, stops the self-centered agressive crap, and grows up a bit. As evidenced by addressing issues in a mature fashion rather than making quickie, semi-obtuse comments in passing that send the spouse off into confusion.
MrsNOP - let me know if I start going over the top, I'm beginning to feel like a streetcorner preacher...
Sorry to hear that things aren't all great in Mojoland. As a HDM, I say "Ditto" to Hairy's post!
This is something that I've been thinking a lot about lately. None of us would accept, "I don't ever want to have sex again" from our S. But what if they said, "I'll have sex with you, but I'll never WANT you like you want me to"?
It seems to me that most of those who progress in frequency are still dissatisfied in the desire category. MrsNOP says she's LD, but it sounds to me that her desire makes her HD. Outside of that, I don't see anyone else who has jumped the desire hurdle. It gives me cause for concern as we make "scheduled sex" steps forward.
Again, welcome back. I hope Mr.Wilson/Cuddles becomes Mr.MeatPacker for you.
Quote: I'd sure feel bad about calling him a chick
Don't feel bad. When my H made the "piece of meat' comment, I have to admit another much less kind animal name for a female came to mind. Maybe I really am an "unkind animal name for a female".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: she lets me continue for as much as half an hour and to the point where I’m giving the interesting parts my full attention. When she cuts me off then...
This sounds MEAN to me! This is the classic, teen-aged girl sex-tease thing, where you get the guy all hot and bothered and then don't follow through. It's like standing someone up when you said you'd be somewhere and you just don't show up!
Quote: While I bow my head before JJ's analogy prowess, our relationships can be compared to two people in a row boat. Both of you *have* to be rowing. When you look up and notice that you've been by this bush before, then it's a pretty good indication that your spouse ain't rowing with you.
So true. I think I've just been confused because many things have improved in our relationship. It's like I've been rowing around the same old island again the past couple monthes, but it's summer instead of winter, so the landmarks are less obvious and the trip is more pleasant. For instance, instead of avoiding touching me in bed in order to avoid sex, my H might make a point of tucking me into bed next to him and giving me a non-sexy kiss and an "I love you". He has done an excellent job of turning himself into a dream husband for an LD woman, but he just isn't willing(able) to be loving in the way I most prefer.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
My H is also the dream H for an LD husband. He is kind, loving, considerate, helps with the kids etc...but there is this nagging distance that he maintains which causes me a considerable amount of consternation and pain. I have to then choose whether to "put myself out there" or not. Very often my own desire is actually negligible at that moment but if I see a chance then I have to try to reel in that fish lest I never see another. My question - is there ever a time that we will have a natural flow of sexuality in the R?
Karen, who is tired of not only fixing her own plate but of going into the kitchen and finding only junk food there
Quote: I think it is even more basic than that. I think NOPkins was HD enough to get the relationship over the "hump" that I can't get over in my relationship.
Actually, that's not how it worked with us. As we progressed on schedule and my heart wasn't exactly in it, he realized that going through the sexual motions wasn't what he wanted. His desire was to share intimacy with me. And he let me know that without anger. So, there were times when he skipped the sex, while letting me know why.
I don't think drives, whether low or high, are ultimately the issue. How you respond, treat, and deal with each other is.
Because how we care for each other hasn't anything really to do with our differing drives. It may be simplistic or it may be a personality trait, but being glibly hurtful or intentionally cruel to someone is anathema to me. That contributed toward our progress as well.
While sex may the the point of the fight, it is HOW the fight is handled by both parties that determines whether or not there will be ongoing success. NOP's high drive wasn't some magical beacon that lead us through the darkness. It was his committment to doing all within his power to make our marriage work and be fulfilling to us both. It wasn't my gender that made it easier, it was my committment to do all within my power to make our marriage work and be fulfilling to us both.
Where our deepest pain resides, is where we have expressed our heart to our spouse and it seems that they treat it lightly. Without care. Without importance.
There is no amount of sexual drive in the world, that will get you past that hump.
In my case, I think that while he is surprised that I'm not bringing up or iniating sex, it's just fine with him, maybe even preferable.
I think that what our actions show clearly, is that we are willing to care about each other and be part of each others' day to day life, platonically. Once I thought it through, that's okay with me. I am not willing to take on the pointless task of trying to make him or this R something he/it is not. It IS a dealbreaker in terms of a LTCR but right now it's fine.
Obviously, this would be quite different if we were married. I hate having deal breakers crop up once you are married.
Quote: None of us would accept, "I don't ever want to have sex again" from our S. But what if they said, "I'll have sex with you, but I'll never WANT you like you want me to"?
I don't know Barn, I think I would accept it if W would tell me that she never wants sex again. I wouldn't like it, I would hope to change it, but at least it would let me know where things stand. That's better than never getting any answers when I bring up sex and constantly wondering what's going on.
The second choice might even be worse. I could have sex, but it would leave me with the same question that Ms. Hairdog posed to him: why do you want to have sex with someone you know doesn't want to have sex with you? Now that would really require some heavy introspection and evaluation of the sitch.
. And then women have the flip side of that where they're supposed to be the warm, loving, affectionate one.
As a HDM, I say "Ditto" to Hairy's post!