Quote: Hey, she'd do anything for a pet from Timmie, so maybe there is a connection. Especially if your man's name is Tim, LOLOL.
Nope it's not Tim...but hey..whatever works
Quote: I am really honest about my feelings, my reactions to him, my opinion of his behavior (workin on that one ) etc.
I'm making progress there...but I'm definitely not good at it yet, but I'm trying.
Quote: What I am NOT forthcoming about--and I just discovered this recently--is my own sexual wishes and wants and needs. I tend to downplay them so as not to freak him out and overwhelm him. I tend to minimize what I want so he doesn't think I'm weird or nutz.
Oh man! Me too! Doesn't that just frustrate the heck out of you too!? This is something I'm really working on, but it's still very difficult for me to express what I want/need sexually in the moment. That's my own thing that I'm working on...I really don't think my H still has any idea of just how shy I really am and how hard this really is for me too.
Quote: Is there some part of ME that thinks that my wishes are unreasonable? Have I bought into his accusation that I am unreasonable in my sexual requests? If so, why have I allowed that to happen?
Lets face it...after being told for so long that you are being unreasonable (when you aren't) it's bound to rub off a bit. I liken it to someone who is being emotionally/mentally abused...put down for so long, eventually they start to believe they aren't worth loving and can't do anything right. It's pretty similar really if you think about it. No, it's not mental abuse...but it is conditioning...so after awhile of this conditioning you do start to 2nd guess yourself. So stop it, you aren't being unreasonable....Hey! Maybe I should take my own advise on that one
Quote: After all, he is VERY forthright about what his sexual expectations are and what he is wanting, so what is preventing me from laying my own stuff on the line?
The simple fact that he's made is seem so unreasonable in the past and has rejected you time and time again...that's a hard thing to get past...and you're doing really well at it!!! Keep it up.
Quote: This, imo, is a double edged sword. Perhaps at first there is some merit to downplaying your needs so that your partner is not completely freaked, but at some point you have to get real.
Absolutely!!! I think that's the point you and I are both at right now...and it's difficult/uncomfortable to get real with your spouse. I mean lets face it...if we show them who we really are that gives them the power to hurt us all over again...and who wants to go through that? But if we don't expose who we are then how can we expect them to love & accept us the way we are and in turn fulfill our needs?
Quote: Sometimes you have to face some really harsh feelings that come from your partner's direction in order to be able to feel immense hurt and then move on to the next phase.
Quote: I mean lets face it...if we show them who we really are that gives them the power to hurt us all over again...and who wants to go through that? But if we don't expose who we are then how can we expect them to love & accept us the way we are and in turn fulfill our needs?
Gee, I'm gone for a few days and miss all the good stuff. GEL likes it doggie style so much that she has her own "doggie" name and Mr.HP was inducing labor in the delivery room with "mini-him".
Welcome to the BB, Laurie. I'm sorry you need to be here, but glad you found us.
HP wrote {{ Or maybe I am just rambling and full of crapola. }}
No HP, your thinking is good. HairDog and a few of us other less than lucky guys can learn from a woman how to present our expetations of a M without sounding mean, controling, or just pigs. We also have to realise that some spouses will never "get it" even if we tell them the preverbial 100 times.
I am trying to be assertive with my W and to lessen the collateral damage when I persent my feelings and desires to her.
Back to the reguarally scheduled forum. Keep it up, you are doing well!
Wow, you are all really funny. And thank you Mike for the welcome.
HP: *&^%! you reminded me that I had meant to being up the stupid nympho comment during "the talk" & I forgot. (darn! now I'm going to have to find a way to put this out there by itself) I had meant to tell him I don't want to hear that word again. Also, like you, I should be the tired one, taking care of the baby, and I see that there’s time and opportunity, ironic that H should be the one who’s “too tired” I borrowed heavily from HP's & GEL's posts for ideas of how to phrase things... I did throw out that "I have been neglecting one of your basic needs and then wondering why you were upset." (in reverse, of course) I'm hoping after giving it a few days to sink in he'll be a little more sympathetic at least. Well, the diet and exercise program start today, it won't hurt me to get into better shape anyways, but H has farther to go and less incentive, so now I am also diet and exercise coach.
H’s relationship with his mother is odd in that he was really raised by his grandmother, his mom was 18: married, got preg and divorced in the same year, then handed baby to grandma so she could go to college. The dripping hatred she and grandmother have of his father has got to be an issue, and occasionally to this day they will make mean remarks about how he is like his father (I've met the guy, womanizer but not a horrible father) & it bothers them that he doesn't hate his father (not that they get along that great really). Also, because his grandmother really treats him as her third baby, his relationship with his mother is much more like that of a VERY jealous sibling. His mother is definitely jealous of her mother's love of H. Also his mother makes no effort to hide that she loves his half-brother (much younger and she raised him) much more than H. Yeah, there are issues could keep a C busy for a while.
As for ML during preg. I actually took H to DR visit and had DR explain that it was OK. So pretty much it’s just an excuse he won’t let go of. I let it go during the preg to keep peace and calm, which was important to me at the time. I’m sure it was more of an emotional/mental picture issue so I’m willing to let it go, I just wish he would see it for what it really was rather than cover it up with fake medical reasons. But in the spirit of picking my battles, I’m not dealing with this one.
The sugar-coating is definitely something to ditch then? I am willing to try getting rid of the “subtle” talking around the issue, he’s really the one who has trouble talking about “those things” In light of the recommendations, I am going to try to be more direct in what I say.
So now, again, a question for everyone: How did you decide whether or not try to get SO to read related books? My new library should be here by the end of the week.. Should I read them first then try to get H to read one? Should I leave them laying around & hope he’ll pick one up (particularly SSM)? Or should I hide them? Any ideas? Experiences?
I have my own little library, which I read voraciously at first, now less so. I tried to get W to agree to read a book together, but she didn't read. Pretty soon I figured out that she was never going to.
I don't hide the books. I leave them out where she can see that I am studying the problem. Once she said, "You study sex too much." Well, I'm studying relationships.
Laurie: I have to comment about getting the SO to read the books. Specifically, I left a very loving note for her and asked her to read SSM because I thought it did a good job of describing the way I felt.
You would have thought I left a bomb and a book about eating live babies. She totally lost it. If you've been reading any posts about my W, you're probably not surprised. YMMV.
Someone on here got the SSM book thrown at them.
Others have had great success, e.g. their spouses agree to read it, and it sits on the nightstand for months collecting dust.
But actually, some people have had better luck than average. Just don't go into this expecting that your spouse will suddenly see the light and all will be right with the world. It doesn't usually happen that way.
Yes, definitely drop the sugar coated talk. Be direct, not hurtful mind you, but direct. Say what you mean, mean what you say...don't use euphamisms...I lose my H when I do this. It's all too easy for him to not take what I'm saying seriously when I do that. Don't get me wrong, occasionally I'll use a useful analogy when I find one I think he can relate to...but in general now I try to stay away from it in convo's with him. I may use some on here...but I avoid them with him now.
As far as the book, I would highly recommend you read it first. My H has agreed to reading the book, but I'm lucky in the fact that my H really does want to work on things. He just is slow to actually do the hard stuff....you stretch himself to do the things that are uncomfortable for him.
When I approached him about reading the book...I told him that I really would like it if he'd read it simply because there were parts of the book that I felt were written directly for me...and some for him. I made a point to tell him that it tries very hard to give BOTH perspectives, so I (to some extent) was able to see where he may be coming from as well.
Oh, and definitely DO NOT hide them. You have nothing to be ashamed of, you are working on your relationship for the good of both of you....why hide them? If he's not too thrilled about you reading these books...too frickin bad. You have every right to read whatever you please. Somehow I don't think he's going to be angry with you though. To be honest with you, I think my H actually liked the fact that I was doing "research" as he called it.
Quote: mom was 18: married, got preg and divorced in the same year
My bf's mom also divorced his father when bf was a year old. One of the biggest wounds of my bf's life is being raised without a dad. When I asked him why his mom divorced his dad, bf said because his dad was "a drunk and a thief." Up until recently bf was a drunk, too.
I wonder how many LD partners were raised without same-sex parent on the premises?
P.S. There do seem to be a high proportion of Jews & Catholics here for such a small sample size.
Quote: I wonder how many LD partners were raised without same-sex parent on the premises?
I'm more inclined to wonder how many truly LD people have ever experienced a really fulfilling sexual experience. That seems to be more apparant to me. True many of them have been raised dysfunctionally, but so have many HD people.
The pattern I've noticed IMHO, is one of control. The LD partner wants the control, perhaps in an effort not be controlled by the HD person...I don't know. But the control issue becomes a battle of wills...with sex as the weapon. HD people want more of it and wonder why the LD person can't just "do it"....LD people cannot understand why the HD person "needs it". I've also noticed that many of the people on this board (myself included) have mentioned that their spouses are very inhibited in many ways.
These are merely rantings and observations here...so bear with me on this.
Quote: P.S. There do seem to be a high proportion of Jews & Catholics here for such a small sample size.
Lillie...I've just got to ask this...are you a statistician or something like that? I've noticed you tend to look for trends quite a bit. Not a criticism mind you, just an observation from an overly tired, quite pooped out, fairly run-ragged mother of a 16-mo old little boy LOL.
) etc. 
