Hi Anne, My sitch is here. I'll have to try to get it in my sig again, it didn't work last time I tried for whatever reason. I think I may have backslid a bit today, but also gained much needed insight in my W's line of thinking. I went home to get some items I needed - I have a sister coming to visit in 2 weeks, and wanted additional items so sis and I could cook. Anyway, I visited and played with our cats (9 of them!), and MIL and FIL were there. Visit went well I thought. I took a load of stuff to my apartment, then went back later to try to find a few items that I misplaced. The ILs were gone. And the backslide occured when I started talking to the W. But I learned a lot. Having a hard time remembering all the details (I have short term memory problems) but essentially, she needs 'alone time'. LOTS of it. More than I've been giving. We're good friends, we have that going for us. She's my BEST friend, and I miss talking to her. Anyway, I told her 'you know how to get ahold of me' and I'm going to do my best to make no more contact - email or otherwise - until she makes contact. There are agreed-upon exceptions. 1)when I see my C she and I talk about it. 2)my sis is coming to visit and wants to meet W and W isn't against it 3)we volunteer together at a no-kill cat rescue every other Saturday, next week we will be very short in volunteers so she and I will be pretty much the only ones there. 4)I have some stuff on order that is for both of us, and she has some food on order for both of us to split, and we'll be in contact to split those items. Aside from that, the oneness (onus?) to make contact is now on her. And I'm praying for strength on this one. The last thing - and another hard one for me - was, when I went to leave I stepped in for an embrace, caught myself, and stepped back. She said, "I prefer not to". It stung, but I understand.
So there's my up-to-date sitch. I wish I had done all of what I'm doing before we separated, but I cann't change the past.
I feel like pretending I was never away and just posting as if you all knew what happened yesterday, the day before, and this morning! It's work to go away from the boards!
Vermont and TG were good. Parts were great, parts were difficult, and parts were bad. Briefly, S. and I turned the corner on how we talk to each other, starting out last week in old mode (sniping and stonewalling), and ending up last night as we drove back in a new kind of conversation, based on figuring out our greater narratives (stories based on expectations) and how they relate to our deepest life philosophies.
We continued the conversation today, and in all we are doing a good job of keeping the personalization out of it. It's exhausting to think about at the moment - suffice it to say we are talking more frankly and more openly, with more trust. And it's very much like self-therapy, which is great because it's open and un-personal, but we don't have to pay 150 bucks an hour!
It's a relief, really.
In other news, I am thinking of putting a hold on whether S. will come down with me to spend Christmas with my family - I feel that we need to be clearer (and especially I need to be clear) about where this is going. My family is too important to me to have "just a boyfriend" down. This is not an ultimatum, in fact it's the opposite - going down there last year felt like pressure to him, and this year I feel like I want it to be right. I want the boy I bring home for Christmas to be my life's mate. I haven't said anything to him to this effect yet, but I thought I'd throw it out here, and mull it over some on my own. All thoughts welcomed.
More later - meeting my cousin out for some beers in the neighborhood and catching up.
Welcome back and I'm glad you had a good Thanksgiving. It sounds like things are progressing with S, but serious questions still remain regarding the real "C" word. I think your idea for space on Christmas is sound unless something breaks before then. As I asked previously, do you have any sense as to what he wants? Oh well; onward and upward.
Congratulations on holding onto yourself through the difficult conversations. In those stories/narratives and principles articulated, did you gain clarity about the relationship and where it is or can go? I for one will look forward to hearing more.
Not a lot of wisdom here about the Christmas thing, other than to say that I echo Merrick's question--what are S's intentions? This could be a good boundary for you.
As I type in the dark (got up for some water), S. sleeps in the room adjacent. I came home to him sitting in my bed reading - a pleasant surprise, since we both went out with other friends last night. It was nice to curl up and chat briefly before sleep. I have a feeling he called my cel. when he returned home, found it turned off, saw my light was off, and expected to find me home sleeping. Surprise!
Thanks, Merrick and GBO, for stopping by! Nice to see both of you after what feels like a long hiatus. The talks we are having are toward making this R work, and the goal is a greater commitment. We had a great talk in the car back from Vt. I said I thought it was a bad idea, but we set some ground rules (either one of us could stop the conv without “penalty” if it got unproductive or if we started getting defensive), and it went really well. I think just setting those rules beforehand and being aware that we tend to get tense kept us in check.
I, for one, was able to listen without personalizing, and I think it was my feeling lately that I could let this go if it isn't working for me, and the time is nigh to make that decision, that kept me lovingly detached. I was also able to articulate very evenly and clearly without sounding hurt or angry that I’ve been having those feelings – that it hasn’t been working for me lately and that I want it to work, but I’m willing to let it go if it doesn’t.
For his part, S. says really wants it to work, too. I believe him, and it is a relief to have had it stated explicitly again. His part in these convs has been clear, inspired, and earnest. He has been listening, and has jumped into the analysis of our philosophies with both feet. He has both pointed out some inconsistencies in my behavior (pointing to not being clear about what I really want) and been open to my observations of his own inconsistencies, and we’ve discovered new things about each other.
I realize I’m not getting very specific here, but if I were right now I’d be typing for days. I need a little time to process all that we talked about so I can break it down into a more BB-sized post; what’s more, I just need more time to process before I share.
In all, this is very good. We are making progress. Whether at the end of the day we make progress toward a greater commitment remains to be seen, but I am happy we are making progress toward SOMEthing, and it will move us toward a decision - and greater freedom.
What a great rule, Jen, that either of you could end the conversation without penalty. Sounds like that provided the right amount of safety. I'm impressed that you could be so explicit in approaching the conversation. I myself have big triggers around my H's stonewalling and quick trigger walking away right when the going gets tough. His need to run away combined with my abandonment issues. Ugh. This is much better!
GBO, you described so many Rs right there, including mine: man stonewalls and runs, woman feels abandoned and pursues. Yuck. H2H, when do you get back, anyway?
So wow, lots and lots of great convs with S. going on! Last night after I posted and went back to bed, he was awake and asked where I’d been. I said I’d been getting a snack, and we proceeded to have another good, productive conv. His sister got engaged on TG day (she lives in SoCal and did not come back east for TG), and called TG night in Vt. to tell us. He has had reservations about her fiancé, and so was thinking about her. When I came back to bed, we had a long talk about their R, which included some insights into ours. We talked about marriage, controlling behaviors, and his R with his sister, which has deteriorated somewhat since she has been with her fiancé (whom we met and went camping with when we were in SoCal last March).
On the car ride home from Vt., we’d talked about his R with his immediate and extended family (he had an emotionally abusive father who died 6 years ago) and then about mine. It was great sharing time, and segued beautifully into the R talk we’d been trying to have for days. Another reason it went well – we were on goodwill terms after the “nonthreatening” sharing of our Rs with other people.
He was very affectionate in bed last night, and again this morning when we got up. It seems we are feeling closer and safer together, which is key for him to be able to feel like the R is progressing. He has said many times that he has to feel safe in order to share doubts, and in sharing doubts and talking about them, he feels safer and more able to dispel them or have them dispelled by me. So I am learning (slowly and with a lot of lip-biting) to listen to his doubts and not hear “THIS ISN’T WORKING FOR ME AND I WANT TO END THIS R.”
After the serious talk about sister’s controlling fiancé and her tendency to become involved with broken men (his words), we had a nice segue into a lighter conv, and laughed some before drifting off to sleep again. It was really nice, and comfortable.
Am I really doing this? This can't be the Jennifer I used to know and struggle with.
Quote: Am I really doing this? This can't be the Jennifer I used to know and struggle with.
You ARE doing this and this shows how much room each of us can grow if we're willing to look within and commence the journey.
My only advice right now is to continue going slowly and not to push too hard. Betsey and I once described Mr. Wonderful like the rabbit who is willing to pop out of his hole, come over to you, and sniff a bit, but at the first sudden move--scampers back into the hole with even more coaxing needed to get him out.
The trick now is to see if you can get S to reach an intellectaul point where he does not scamper at the first hint of danger and accepts some turbulence of as a normal condition of living outside the hole. Basically, a male version of your ongoing effort to listen without hearing abandonment.
I still hear a man who is afraid to commit, but in some respects I also hear a man who fears commitment not just for commitment in itself in terms of being tied down (for lack of better words), but because he has enough integrity to recognize that this is not a light decision and he fears his own ability to stick with it. In other words, what underlies commitment is what he actually wants for himself--and while he has a general idea, he simply does not know or does not want to confront the issue. In effect, I think he fears himself more than he fears you!
S sounds like the type who can stick with a decision once he truly makes it--and by that I mean more than just giving something a chance. So, just keep on plugging the way you are and be patient.
The last bit of advice I have is to keep your mind open on Christmas and think of a safe way to make it his choice. While I understand your reluctance to bring home just a "boyfriend," your family is an important part of you and bringing him closer into this orbit at a more advanced statge of your R may add more clarity to his mind. In any event, he needs to know that the decision is his, and you genuinely will accept whatver it is. Obviously, you're in a better position to understand whether this suggestion has any merit.
As an aside for my sitch (I'll post one day), I snooped and saw the D complaint W and her lawyer have drafted to be filed when W gives the go ahead. It's actually weaker than the one I might have drafted and seems easily defensible to me--which may be why she had been so ornery in November (I really think her L is just running the meter). I just have to keep remembering that God is love.
That's my last post of the afternoon. I've Got work to do.
and we proceeded to have another good, productive conv. His sister got engaged on TG day (she lives in SoCal and did not come back east for TG), and called TG night in Vt. to tell us. He has had reservations about her fiancé, and so was thinking about her. When I came back to bed, we had a long talk about their R, which included some insights into ours. We talked about marriage, controlling behaviors, and his R with his sister, which has deteriorated somewhat since she has been with her fiancé (whom we met and went camping with when we were in SoCal last March).
