I had a great weekend. H and I are both really trying to get this back on track permanently. I'm sure there will still be bumps in the road but it is nice to sit back and enjoy the smoothness for a while.
I accomplished many of my goals, as well. That is a good feeling--to know that I am doing my part in keeping the sexual R running, and not just sitting back and scrutinizing it. The only thing I did not do was a blatant initiation, though I thought about it. We were hugging and kissing and I wanted to do something sexy. It was early afternooon and the kids were in the next room so it was not the time for actual sex but I wanted to turn him on. I froze. I realized that I no longer know how to do that. I have tried everything in the book and have been shot down more times than I could count. I stood there, absentmindedly kissing his neck, thinking "ok what do I DO?" In the end, I did nothing and resolved to talk to him about it later. That evening I told him that I would like to blatantly initiate from time to time but that I had no idea what would do it for him. (I left out the part about having tried everything under the sun with no results--aren'tcha proud of me?!) He gave me a few ideas and seemed positive about it so I will proceed from there. In the past I have asked him for ideas, he would suggest things, I would do them and get absolutely NO reaction at all. Then I would be unspeakably hurt and humiliated and the whole thing would end with him saying something uplifting like "That's just not the way I am". (and me thinking, huh? All you have to do is show a reaction!)
But I have to admit that my motives are different this time. Then I did it in order to 'increase his desire for me'. My attitude was, Fine if you don't want me, I will do things to MAKE you want me. I didn't say that out loud but I'm sure it came out loud and clear anyway.
Now, I'm coming from a place of wanting to give him the gift of myself. This is the best way that I know how to show him that I love him. It is what I think of when I think of being in love with him. It is me wanting to do my part in our relationship and making goals and doing them on a regular basis.
Now.....the "I want to make him want me" part is still there, of course it is.
But since he's back on the Showing Desire Bandwagon, I don't feel so desperate to get his sexual attention. Based on his behavior of the last 3-4 days, I would say that Yes he wants me!, so I can give this gift to him freely and with no ulterior motive.
The only other thing on my list of goals was the cards that barney suggested. Our anniversary is on Thanksgiving Day so I was thinking of doing it then.
I'm still not sure of those, though. What if they fall flat and appear manipulative in nature??
Anyone have any advice re: that?
Other than that, it was an excellent weekend here. H has another long weekend coming up (took off Wed for our anni) and I will be doing my part to make sure that the good will continues.
I like what you said about coming from a place of doing your part in the relationship. The following quote is from the BB of David Deida. Thought it was fitting.
___________________________________________________________ Women constantly in their head space rather than their luscious body and heart space - trying to work it out.
Work it out work it out work it out work it out work it out work it out work it out
The yearning a woman feels in her body and heart and the sadness at not being wanted or entered or claimed - becomes toxic. ___________________________________________________________
That being said I'm not sure I would give the cards for the anniversary. My H hates anything that smacks of trying to "improve" him. Men in general are petrified of failure. Are there ways that you could verbalize these one at a time in moments where the vibe is positive? I really love Barney's suggestions but I'm concerned that they won't have the hoped for impact.
Another area Deida addresses - one could say his unique "specialty" - is the relationship between sexuality and spirituality.
"Women or God, that's the traditional choice for so-called spiritual men, you see. But it is a completely unnecessary choice."
The debate is a heated area of controversy that has raged for centuries: in order to be spiritual, must one give up sexuality? In order to enjoy sexuality, must a person give up spirituality?
Spirituality is approached in different ways, according to more masculine or feminine styles. Men, for example, find spiritual connection outside of life - through meditation on emptiness, or a vision quest, for example. Women, on the other hand, find connection within life - through love, celebration, fullness.
"The feminine grows spiritually by learning to live as love rather than by hoping for it. The masculine grows spiritually by learning to live as freedom rather than by struggling for it."
"The Feminine is in life and wants to move with the energies of life. The Masculine is transcendental to life, and wants to be free of life, outside of it, watching it perhaps but not caught up . . ."
Many argue that sexuality, if approached properly, has the potential for being of being not just temporary physical pleasure, but in fact, an actual spiritual experience.
As much as I love you, we are not alone. Through loving you, I have learned to open my heart and feel everyone’s heart. Their love is my love, as is yours. Their suffering is my suffering, as is yours. Just as I am committed to loving you open to God, I am compelled to claim the world as my lover who I must do my best to enter and open to God.
I am afraid, at times, to enter you and the world. I shrivel and seek refuge in private comforts. I can feel your response to my offering or my lack. When I shrink and hold back my gifts, your face shows pain. When I feel through my fear and offer everything I can for the sake of opening you and the world to God, then your face shine’s with love’s brightness.
I see everything in you. I see my fear and courage reflected in your face, but I also feel everyone’s resistance and invitation reflected in your body. You are so sensitive, dear lover. Your body is so ready to open into the shape of your surroundings. But with me and others you have often been encircled by love’s lack. I can feel years of love’s absence still hardened in your body, and I so want to feel you open and receive my love.
The fairytale has asked you to believe that if you find the right man and give him what he wants and needs, then he will love you forever. But it doesn’t work out that way. You can’t depend on his love. He either wanders to women he finds more attractive than you, or he stays with you, but doesn’t continue to enter your heart deeply. He may even want to love you deeply, but he doesn’t know how.
Your lover probably isn’t aware of the constant suffering you experience due to his shallow presence. He is sitting next to you—or lying on top of you—and still he is trapped in his own thoughts, his own sensations, his grid-like world of projects, goals, and plans. His emotions seem so narrow—he’s happy when he’s succeeding in life and unhappy when he’s failing—and your emotions seem so full, wide, and extreme. He runs away when you allow your emotions to flow unconstrained. He can’t really deal with your full emotional strength and sexual desire for depth. He might even think you are crazy.
HP... Congrats on a great weekend. I sense a lot of maturity in your post. You seem less hung up on getting the validation you need from him to feel like a sexy creature ( and how well were your attempts succeeding anyway) and more focused on your H has a person. I also liked the honesty you showed him by telling him what you were trying to do and if he had any suggestions. You really are working so much on your marriage it is an inspiration, esp when you consider that you've just had a baby. I am happy H is showing his desire for you...as well he should...you are a great wife.
IHJ--- Regarding the cards, I think you should run it by H and see how he reacts...get a sense if he feels it's a turn-off gimmicy thing or something that could be fun, and take it from there.
Thank you all for your input. Lillie that was a good read! I will check my local library and see if they have that book.
Journey, thank you for your thoughts about the cards. I think I will hold off on them. There is a little voice in my head that is saying, This could be a disaster in the making.. so I think I will heed that voice. Your suggestion to feel him out about it is a good one. You know, the LAST thing I want to do is make him feel like, Sheesh I thought I was doing good and now she gives me crib notes on how to be sexy! Otoh, I think it would do him good to see that my idea of sexy is just a notch above what he is already comfortable doing. Just a smidge more effort would have me singing his praises eternally. I am not looking for drama and theatrics.
I feel mature when he makes efforts. When he refuses to "see" me and acknowledge that I am a hot mama and desire him, I then ramp up my actions and "neediness" and it is a vicious circle of me trying to get his attention and him withholding it b/c I am acting needy. In short, I suck at acting as if. Actually I don't suck at it but it has never gotten me good results so I refuse to go back there.
Historically, H is the first to pull back when things are going well. I am bracing myself for that and wondering how I will handle it when it happens. I want to give him his space but gently lead him back to me. I have to get out of this poor-me space and be ready for it--ready to firmly but kindly show him that he can have his space without pushing me away. I'm not sure how other couples do it, but we will find a way.
Today, I was putting some books back on a shelf (thank you my darling kids for knocking them all off) and I saw H's old journal. I opened it and read a bit. He long ago told me I could read it, so don't go getting your tailfeathers ruffled, lol. I have read it before but it has been a long time. It was so interesting to see our relationship played out in black and white, in H's own words. For the first half of the book, he is absolutely obssessed with me in the typical newlywed fashion. Love, jealousy, fear, and passion dominated his writings. He was cleary in love and in lust with me. Then.......at about 2.5 yrs into marriage, the writings take an abrupt (and I mean abrupt) turn and all thoughts of overwhelming love and passion are gone. They have been replaced by spiritual musings. It does not go back to any loving or passionate feelings towards me, ever. The next entries are taken up by musing about our newfound roles as parents (we had our first child after we had been married 4 yrs). Then more spiritual musings and the entries stop. After all, who has time to journal when there are little ones around?!
Surprisingly I did not feel a pang of wanting to go back to the "I love her and want her so bad" days. At all. It seemed like an immature and incomplete love, which of course it was. I did, however, feel an immense sadness at the speed at which all those thoughts disappeared and I was totally replaced by his religious longing. I vividly remembered how lonely I was at that time and how I conveyed that to him with ANGER.
But.....the pages after all that are blank.
We are filling them in, day by day, and I think they are going to be the best chapters of all.
Wish me luck in keeping my positivity going. It is crucial to our success. God help me to do my part in this and not let backslides turn into landslides.
Historically, H is the first to pull back when things are going well. I am bracing myself for that and wondering how I will handle it when it happens. I want to give him his space but gently lead him back to me. I have to get out of this poor-me space and be ready for it--ready to firmly but kindly show him that he can have his space without pushing me away. I'm not sure how other couples do it, but we will find a way.
This is true for us as well. Since you are in a good place if you could talk to him about that. Frame it in a positive way. As in, "I have felt really good about us lately. I think we are going in the right direction and I wonder how we can keep it going, maybe even make it more fun." What do you think about that? I am seeing the fog beginning to lift and will eventually need to address this too. I wonder if it would help if your H could see your sexual R as part of his spiritual duty too?
I told him about the journal last night and he was really interested to hear what it said. So interested, in fact, that he got up and shut the door so we could hear each other. (our darling sweet little daughters were making more noise than a monster truck pull)
I told him about his musings from the beginning and how they were mostly about loving me--but fearing that I would leave him or lose interest in him--and wanting me. We spoke about that for a while and both agreed that we would not go back there even if we could. I told him that for a long time I had glorified those days in my mind, forgetting what they were truly like and only focusing on the fact that the love was free and easy. I spoke a little about how it changed suddenly but didn't dwell on it. The mood was light and cheerful and I didn't want to punish him for the gazillionth time about abandoning me during those years.
One thing I did want to talk about but chickened out was the fact that he was so OPEN about his desires back then. He wrote in one passage about returning from a Marine Corps trip of several weeks to find his wife greeting him naked at the door. He then went into graphic detail, which I will spare all of you that part, but I was surprised at how easily he wrote of this incident. He would scarcely be able to talk about this, today. Furthermore, I would scarcely be able to pull off such a stunt today. In fact, I doubt I would do it. I would talk myself out of it, for fear that he would laugh it off or some other inappropriate reaction.
How have we gotten so far away from the fun-loving couple that we were then?
At any rate, the night was good. We were loving and affectionate towards each other. Still a little awkward but we're working on it.
The only slightly negative point was when I brought up the schedule (again) and said, Hey I've got it all worked out. How about Tues, Wed, Thurs, Fri, Sat and Sun? We had been talking about this week (the tues in question is today) so I thought he would get my joke..he doesn't go back to work until Monday so I was capitalizing on the free time. Anyway, he did not get the joke at all and said, "Ahhhhhhh..don't you think you'd be exhausted?" Which I thought was complete baloney. He knows I would not be exhausted but that was his way of saying, Please be exhausted; I don't want to do that. I told him, H! I'm kidding! I only said that because you are off work from Wed-Mon.
I thought it was odd, though, because there are many weeks (again, non-preg) when we have sex every day and he's fine with it BUT HE IS THE ONE INITIATING IT. If it's his idea, fine, if it's mine No way, that's too exhausting.
However, all the talk about frequent sex got him revved up and he initiated anyway. So it was a nice ending to the evening but I am still in the lurch as far as the schedule! I think I just need to take the bull by the horns (or another body part) and force it, just like I do everything.
So things continue to be positive and lots of effort is being made in the Honey House.
Take those baby steps towards your goal and give yourself a break once in a while.
