Quote: It would work about 2/3 of the time. Many on this board might say to go for it and shut the hell up.
I wouldn't be one of those. Sometimes I just want to gather the whole bunch of you up for a group hug. Non-sexual, of course.
When I first started reading here of folks who wanted their spouses to desire them, being of the LD persuasion, I was trying to figure out just how that would manifest itself. I confess to thinking something along the lines of "Nips erect, eyes glinting, loins burning, must locate spouse and express love & desire." (Okay, I know it's a bit extreme, but what do I know? and besides I left out the word turgid.)
But, as I continued to read, what I find is that you HDs aren't so different from me after all. You want to be important to your someone. You want that specific someone to look at you, actually see you, love you and *express* that love to you in a personal way that is meaningful to you.
And it hurts like h*ll when you've made requests, suggestions, lists, examples, bought books, worked on yourself, cried, cussed, whined, begged, and discussed ad nauseam only to find yourself once again standing in the middle of your relationship with an empty bowl in your hands.
You're right, HP. Hubby has to come through at some time, from his *own* motivation, from his *own* heart toward you without you having to always prime the pump.
I still don't get strong sexual desires, but that doesn't keep me from "chasing" NOP, from hugging him, touching him, groping him, snuggling him. Because he is important to me, his desires and needs are important to me. Right now, this day, this hour.
I think you're important to Mr. HP, but he finds it easy to not give importance to you right now, this day. And in giving into the easier way for the short term with nebulous ideas that once the kids are grown things will be different or once the career is FITB, he is unknowingly erecting a structure. Because what we chose today is building our tomorrow.
And it hurts like h*ll when you've made requests, suggestions, lists, examples, bought books, worked on yourself, cried, cussed, whined, begged, and discussed ad nauseam only to find yourself once again standing in the middle of your relationship with an empty bowl in your hands.
Oh, my yes. The thing I keep thinking over and over is that it simply shouldn't (I know don't "should" on yourself) be that difficult.
Is it really that hard to put your hands on your spouse's hips, kiss him/her like you mean it and say "You're sexy and I love you." Sometimes I hope that if I "model" that behavior it will help. It doesn't. I guess I will just keep fighting the good fight - since I do love that big 'ol dense man.
I feel understood. I will spare you my Sally Field "you like me" speech.
The burning loins deal is what h thinks I am after. Actually, I want HIS displays of sexiness. He is not a burning loins type of fella and I wouldn't want him to fake that. I want HIM. When he gives me a passionate peck, he looks me in the eyes and makes sure that I know what he is doing. At that moment, he is communicating to me "I love and desire you and though I am too shy/awkward to throw you over my shoulder and head for the boudoir, the feelings are there." I see it in his eyes and I read these signals in his body. I am thrilled. I don't want him to be someone he's not. I wish I could convince him of this.
But as you said, he must come to this conclusion on his own.
I also loved the structure comment. You know, I need to devise some kind of Cyrano de Bergerac device and you kind people can pipe your great comments into my earballs while I have the Talk with H.
HP, I'm glad you're going to give him "the cards". I was serious in suggesting it!
Your comments today reflect my thinking about it, too. You WANT your H to think about you and sex. I think all HDs want the same thing. The truth is that a LDH/W can control their thinking about sex. They just have to learn HOW and WHAT to think. The cards can give Mr.HP that info.
I read a Christian woman's book on sex and sexuality where the author revealed a lot about the SL she enjoyed in her M (which was pretty much every 2-3 days). She confessed to enjoying sex once they got going, but that she wasn't naturally the type to think about it on her own. This caused problems in the early days of her M, so she began writing "TS" on every 2nd day in her daily planner. The "TS" was a reminder to THINK SEX. It made all the difference in her M and she admitted that she naturally thinks about sex daily as a result, without needing reminders.
I hear Mrs.NOP saying that, too. She doesn't "naturally" think sex, but she chases, gropes, hugs, and kisses NOP because she loves him. IOW, she's trained herself to think and act sexual toward NOP. It didn't come naturally to her, but it becomes more natural the more she does it.
HP, your H is spoiled rotten! He has no idea how great he has it. As you make it clear that you don't intend to be the only one thinking/initiating sex, he will have to change his "natural" sexual behavior to keep his M strong. The more specific you can be in providing info for him to think and act on, the better he can "re-program" himself.
I don't see this as P/A behavior on your part at all! You're giving him the tools he needs to strengthen his M.
I will give him the cards, I just have to stall and get over my nervousness about it. He will throw them away, first of all. Or.......if he doesn't throw them away he will hide them so thoroughly that he will forget about them and never mention them again. Not one time will he 'play along'. And he is a playful person!
But I'm doing it to let him know what makes me tick and so that he can't say that I don't try to "help" him.
We talked last night, though he slept through most of it. I alternated between compassion and frustration and anger. (the anger was seeping in when I would discover he was asleep) My timing in discussing it with him was bad, I admit it. Prior to that he wouldn't stop trying to initiate or making innuendos and I couldn't stomach the thought of that. Sidenote: I wonder if LD people realize that, over the course of time, their behavior can turn their partners off to them forever? It seems to me that my H thinks (read: takes it for granted) that I will desire him always. This is not true! My desire for him fluctuates GREATLY. His behavior can really turn the tide either way. I am aware that my own behavior has a big effect on his desire for me, but I would bet dollars to dognuts that he doesn't think it goes both ways. You would think this would scare him but it doesn't. I believe he would almost be relieved if I lost my desire for him--except he doesn't realize that at that point the M would be over. My love and desire are wrapped up in each other and you lose one, you lose em both. End sidenote.
Anyway the convo stuttered along, getting nowhere. There were no resolutions other than him saying he would try to do better. I tried to impress upon him that I need him to love and appreciate me in the ways that are meaningful to ME (thanks nop) but he was dozing and I don't even know if he heard it all.
At the end of the night, I was completely wound up and got up out of bed to read. He asked me to stay in bed and I angrily said that we would have to have sex then cause I couldn't sleep. He said, I've been trying to get you to have sex with me for 2 hours!! I'm not doing it! But.......we did anyway. It wasn't that great for me and I couldn't get my brain to shut up but at least it's outta the way.
I really don't feel much hope. I think I'm still dealing with the bloodless turnip. At one point I told him, You know things are going to stay exactly the same until you decide that you want to be the sort of person that can show me desire. Until that point, you will make "efforts" and they will fizzle out b/c you will be doing it for ME and not because you want to be different. Look, you don't HAVE to be different...you are great the way you are. But I don't feel your love the way you are showing it. And that is a risk you will be taking.
He did not reply.
At another point, I asked (again) about the schedule. I have asked him probably 6 times in the past week. He is making no forward motion on this, just letting me bring it up if I feel like it. He will do nothing until I say, This is what we are doing, blah blah. I hate that. I don't want to be his 'boss', I want to be his partner. I will continue to think on it and see if there is a way to implement it where I don't feel like I am forcing it on him. NOP's, how did you implement it? Was it "this is what we're doing, so there!" or was it more of a mutual decision? I can't figure out how to proceed from here.
Here are my goals for the week:
1. RESPOND in kind when he shows any desire. 2. Continue to give lots of positive feedback. 3. Look for alternative--and more positive--explanations for his behavior instead of zeroing in on the most negative one. 4. Initiate blatantly once. 5. Give him tons of kisses and hugs--he LOVES this. 6. Draw up the cards so I don't forget about it.
Honeypot
P.S. Advice and feedback welcome, as always.
P.P.S. Oh yeah, Mike, my H is spoiled rotten. However, all of my girlfriends and sisters say the same about me.
Hairy, That's his career in a nutshell, these days! 18 people got fired on Tuesday and H is panicking. His company was bought out and the rumor is that his entire building's work is going to be shut down and the product will hereafter be made in China and shipped back here. I wanted to tell you that cause I know how you feel about it.
H is meeting with a friend (who owns a temp agency and knows the STL businesses well) on Friday and spoke with a recruiter last night. He is under a tremendous amount of stress and I need to chill out on MY NEEDS for a while. Someone remind me of that next time it looks like I'm going on a bender again. Not that I listened when I was on the preg ones. Sigh.
So yeah his career is taking it up the bleep right now.
But maybe you should outsource his job as provider of stimulation.
My W is actually in favor of outsourcing, as she believes it supports the global economy. We have agreed to disagree on this one. I think she wants to outsource her job as provider of stimulation to some lady in India.
