Your post intrigued me. Would you care to elaborate?
Quote: It is sometimes too easy to believe that we are the center of someone else's life.
You are saying that when H calls and is upset or angry I make the mistake of thinking it is about me? Or are you saying something else?
In the past few days he has given signs of wanting and needing you back in a more complete way.
What signs? Staying here?
What an opportunity to show support and that you have set personal boundaries as not to suffocate or control him.
I am trying very hard to show support. I am trying to validate him although when he talks about money it is really about my interests against his. It is difficult. He had a quiet period and so have I, workwise and moneywise.
I am also trying to set boundaries for myself, regarding weekends. So far as I know, this weekend H is having D up there with him. I don't really want him to come down at the last minute, as I have planned to work this weekend on my personal project. I will not be able to concentrate with them here. I think it unlikely that he will invite me up yet, but if he does I will seriously consider going.
What I am trying to do is be friendly when he contacts me, let him know that he can come here too if he wishes (but not always at the last minute so that my plans go out the window). I haven't mentioned him staying here after the minor op, or over Christmas yet. I need to raise the subject of Christmas soonish. I don't want to sound too eager or pushy, but I would like to have some idea of what is going to happen. Got any ideas about how to approach this?
Do you see evidence that I am trying to smother him? Honest opinions always welcome here!
And Dazedboy, how go things with you?
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: It is sometimes too easy to believe that we are the center of someone else's life.
You are saying that when H calls and is upset or angry I make the mistake of thinking it is about me? Or are you saying something else?
Being a recovering control freak, well who am I trying to kid, a certified control freak, I have to remind myself that not only can I not control others, they have their own life and associated problems. I've found that if I step back and listen without making those ASSumptions we are so good at making it allows me to hear their real concerns and sometimes fears. Always try to believe that hubby is upset with the given situation not you personally. Benifit of the doubt time here, but this should generate a much more positive response from both of you.
In the past few days he has given signs of wanting and needing you back in a more complete way.
What signs? Staying here?
I read in one of those thousand or so self help books I've subjected myself to that in a relationship you are seen in a dominant trait of being a nurturer, a threat, a person for sex, a provider or something else. I can't remember them all. I think it is in 'Getting the love you need' by Gray. I think that hubby's relaying fears shows he is seeing you as something less of a threat and possibly more nurturing. Remember that you only have to hear his fear, not fix, to show compassion. I'm sure he has always felt the best about himself and your relationship when he was a great provider. He's facing the base fear of not being that. His self worth has been hit and just acknowledging and sharing with you is a good step.
What an opportunity to show support and that you have set personal boundaries as not to suffocate or control him.
I am trying very hard to show support. I am trying to validate him although when he talks about money it is really about my interests against his. It is difficult. He had a quiet period and so have I, workwise and moneywise.
I am also trying to set boundaries for myself, regarding weekends. So far as I know, this weekend H is having D up there with him. I don't really want him to come down at the last minute, as I have planned to work this weekend on my personal project. I will not be able to concentrate with them here. I think it unlikely that he will invite me up yet, but if he does I will seriously consider going.
What I am trying to do is be friendly when he contacts me, let him know that he can come here too if he wishes (but not always at the last minute so that my plans go out the window). I haven't mentioned him staying here after the minor op, or over Christmas yet. I need to raise the subject of Christmas soonish. I don't want to sound too eager or pushy, but I would like to have some idea of what is going to happen. Got any ideas about how to approach this?
Make your own plans as if he is not involved and then present them to him. Then give to hubby with the innocent remark of 'I didn't know if you wanted me to pencil you in for anything.' This gives him an easy out to say he has other plans, etc.
Do you see evidence that I am trying to smother him? Honest opinions always welcome here!
Re-read your response here. And then go and read the detachment thread. Always being, and needing I might add, to be available can't be good for your own detachment. I asked a couple of weeks ago for you to find a way to step back and take time for YOU. Have you found any of that ME time yet?
Quote: Always being, and needing I might add, to be available can't be good for your own detachment. I asked a couple of weeks ago for you to find a way to step back and take time for YOU. Have you found any of that ME time yet?
Well, I am making this weekend my own. In fact after posting here I am not going to check this board until Monday evening, so as to be able to get on with all the stuff I have planned to do!
I will have a Christmas plan, as I know that by rights it is H's turn to have D over Christmas, but I will leave open the possibility that we can celebrate Christmas together. Last year H spent Christmas completely on his own.
I will let him know that he can spend a few days here after his op, if needed , without making a big deal of it.
Other than that, I am getting on with my life! Working on personal projects, inviting people over for dinner twice next week, working with my new student (she hardly speaks any English but has to pass an oral exam discussing politics in Januaray!! A challenge!!), and organising to be away for a weekend or two this December.
Look forward to hearing your update, Dazedboy!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Well, I got up early on Saturday to get D ready to be picked up to go stay with her Dad. I packed a couple of food items as a little treat for them. (Never heard any thanks for that. He also phoned early morning and asked me to tell his landlord to please pick up some items on the way up for him, and to send up some yogurts with D as he didn't have any up there...) After she left, I went back to bed and woke up at 2pm. I guess I needed that sleep!
Then I got on with my planned stuff and went to bed at a reasonable time.
On Sunday morning the phone rang a few times, I just let it ring. I just felt like being unavaialable and perhaps a bit mysterious. H left a message one time telling me that D had just left, and would arrive in about an hour.
I called back shortly afterwards and told him I was home to receive D, so no problem. H answered the phone after many rings and sounded out of breath, and didn't seem to want to talk any further, so I ended the call 'happily'.
Sunday evening we had friends over, with their kids, and that was nice.
Monday the whole day I was very busy, and in the evening I had more friends over for dinner. The phone rang while they were here and some music was playing and H asked, whats all that noise? I said, that's just some music I am playing... sounded chirpy but busy, which I was! I said bye and handed the phone to D to talk to her Dad.
So, he rang again this evening, and asked, are you too busy to talk? (He has NEVER asked that before!) I said busy, but not too busy to talk. He said, I will come down on Thursday, to take D out to lunch. I might see the doctor as well in the morning. I pointed out that the doctor's surgery was open in the afternoon on a Thursday, so he said, OK that's great. Then I handed the phone to D.
I have to admit, I have been busy the last few days and it really does help me to detach from H's drama a lot. I am not feeling that bothered about what he is up to or worrying about whether he will invite me for lunch. Quite honestly, I am enjoying doing my own stuff just now.
I need to discuss Christmas quite soon, if only to make plans for myself should he decide to take D and do whatever he wants on his own with her and without me. As for the op thing, if he mentions again that he won't be mobile or whatever, I will make the offer to him about staying here, otherwise I will say nothing.
I am dropping the rope about playing his secretary somewhat, but he still hasn't a clue about so many things, like the timings of the doctor's surgery.
D came down having done all of her written homework, but none of the stuff she had to study. I asked her and she confirmed that her Dad didn't help her with her homework. She also at one point was talking about what they did, and then said, I wish you could come up one time too. I just said, I know you do.
I am having my hair done tomorrow, but I don't think I will be seeing H this week. I have plans, possibly, to be away with D this weekend.
I have done a lot of thinking and reading, thinking about my situation, and about the quality of my marriage before all this happened, and just detaching from the day to day worry and drama.
I need to continue in this vein for a while, methinks! I don't have TIME to be depressed! I must make it a habit to invite friends over more often, at least once a week for a meal, it makes me concentrate on the entertaining and of course we have fun. I will have had three evenings of cooking and entertaining in the last four days, by tomorrow!
Got to get to bed at a reasonable time!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Another busy day. My last group of friends had to cancel this evening's dinner due to illness, and I was actually grateful, I think I took too much on!
I played with D this evening, made her something using my sewing machine, and I helped her make a personalised advent calendar for her whole class, by buying one, cannibalising it and sticking the little chocolates behind her drawing. She said to me more than once yesterday and today, she is so happy that she has a Mum who helps her with things, who is "artitic" etc., unlike some of her friends' Mums! I lapped up the appreciation!
I am planning a getaway weekend for us this weekend with friends up in a snowy mountain place! Should be good!
I visited a site that H posts to, there are forums about our shared interest. I have noticed that he often posts things that are in fact things I have said to him over the years! Of course he doesn't credit these things! I realise how much I have influenced him, in ways he hasn't quite acknowledged to me. It really disproves his contention that we had a "miserable" marriage.
So, he takes out D for lunch tomorrow from school.
I will email him about Christmas plans in a few days' time. In the past, whenever I have tried to pin him down to dates for the holidays, he says I am trying to control him. This time I am going to wait for him to tell me what he wants. Of course he then will be vague, time will pass, when I get agitated about wanting to make my plans, he will tell me I am controlling him. I have already had one invite for Christmas, which I would take up were I to be on my own. And if I do, I plan to be mysterious about it too!
That's it from me!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
I have been struggling in the past with this whole thing about how to not be too available, but also how to show unconditional love, while also making H feel the consequences of his actions etc etc. Tricky, huh?
I am impressed with Odga, he has been very consistent in showing his ex unconditonal love.
As I walked throught the park this morning after dropping D off at school, I decided my plan of action was -
Show unconditional love, without wearing my heart on my sleeve or smothering him. Be less than totally available. Make plans to enjoy my life! Do not seek to influence H's actions in any way. Stick up for myself regarding finances, but validate his money concerns.
When I got home I found an email saying that he confirmed he was taking D out for lunch.
Then the phone rang, and he confirmed it again!
Then said, I am taking D to the Chinese restaurant, you can come along if you want, only I can't afford to pay for all three of us. You know how it is. I said, yes, I do.
I said, well, if I decide to come I will turn up at the school to pick up D with you, I just have to see how this morning goes workwise... (Not being too eager!! Let him wonder for a few hours....)
My weekend plans are shaping up nicely, they involve three families, one to travel up with and two to stay with, one night each. Looks like it is going to be fun!
OK, back to work. I have to prepare to teach a lesson or two. Then I have to 'decide'!!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
It went very well, I must say. I felt calm and relaxed and happy throughout.
We went to a Chinese restaurant. D wanted to order just plain white rice. I looked unhappy at that and suggested noodles with vegetables (D is a vegetarian). H and D looked at each other, then H explained to me that just white rice followed by icecream is what D ALWAYS had!
I had difficulty in just listening to this and then saying, OK, you decide what you want to have, and leaving it be, but I did. That is because I have always been very concerned to give D a healthy diet. I happen to believe that good health is a result of healthy living. There was a time when H went along with this, although I NEVER forced him to eat anything or to not eat anything. But now he revels in feeling he has no obligation to look after himself and his health. He puts me in mind of President Bush Senior saying he would NOT eat his broccoli!
Says he LIKES smoking - although for years he said kissing a woman who smoked was like kissing an ashtray. He drinks a fair amount of strong black coffee, doesn't have a very good diet as he has to cook for himself, and has taken up smoking post bomb. He smokes all over D, and she comes back from visits to him reeking of it. Of course he lets D eat whatever she wants, when she is with him. I guess I can tolerate that if it happens about two weekends a month. I shudder to think what her health would be like if he was the PWC.
I think this whole "I'll do whatever I darn well want" attitude is sort of a reaction to being in the marriage where I would tell him he needed to set some kind of example to D in his behaviour, but he never bought into that idea.
After the meal he said, do you mind if I smoke? I took a while to think about what to say, when H himself said, I know the answer to that! He didn't smoke.
We reminisced about a few things in our shared past.
He talked about his latest work regarding his personal work. He has switched to a direction that he himself was disparaging only a year or two ago. H is very fickle. When I looked puzzled, he looked sheepish and grinned.
He mentioned OW 2 quite a lot. Told me about some Christmas traditions from her country. Like, did I know that in (her country) they did this and that? I said, no I didn't! But kept my face neutral.
Then he said, OW 2 was back for a couple of days, trying to get her rent deposit back, but her landlady was a b***h and refused to return most of it on spurious grounds, saying that the house had not been left in clean and good condition, but H said OW spent five days cleaning it. He admitted that OW 2 wasn't the cleanest and tidiest person, but when she cleaned, then she did a good job. The landlady's objections were all spurious... Did I need to know all about this???
It seems OW 2 was in tears over losing so much of her deposit. Then D asked, where did OW 2 get so much money from? H was taken aback and slightly irritated by this question, and said, from work or from her husband...(!!!! ) Good, at least D knows that OW 2 has a husband of her own.
This thing about OW returning for two days to get her money back is strange - she lives in another country many hundreds of miles away, it must have cost quite a lot to come and get her money????
H was all worked up on her behalf, saying that if there is one thing he has learnt in this life, it is that that most people are b*****ds and will do anything to make a bit of money. The landlady is a well off school headmistress and must be the biggest hypocrite around, trying to steal money from a poor defenceless foreign woman. He told me of his fantasy to go cut all her tyres one night.....
All the while I just sat there, listening, with a look of mild bemused interest on my face.
I mentioned that we would be away in the mountains this weekend, and he immediately tried to guess who we were visiting (correctly) and said, send them my love.
He asked me YET AGAIN about the timings of the doctor's surgery. I wondered if he was fishing for an invite to stay the night, as he would have to rush to catch the last bus. But I left it, I am busy today and tomorrow and will not invite him unless he initiates, except for Christmas and after the op.
I paid for my part of the bill, he looked a little amused when I took the money out.
All in all, I felt fine, and after he kissed me goodbye on the cheeks, I realised that I didn't want to ever kiss him again without him wanting it, and I was prepared to accept his not wanting it until he did, if ever, want it. I felt great!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
A challenge!!), and organising to be away for a weekend or two this December.
