Had a good night last night. h had a ton of homework to do and was craving burritos so I went and got us some. I have to admit I was a bit crabby by the time I got home...the drive was long and the weather stunk (pouring rain) so it was more of an effort than I wanted it to be. I think I was snippy with h when I got home but we rallied.
I watched tv and read while he did his work. I went to be at 10pm and when he came in later he woke me up (I asked him to) and told me that he loved me. I think he may have also called me "darling" which is just too cute.
He's got a full day ahead of him...I'm meeting him at school after my acupuncture appt. He's not sure when he's going to be done since he's got a paper due tonight but I told him I was flexible -- I'll just bring a book with me.
One very cool thing is that he asked me a few days ago about acupuncture. You may remember my rant of a few weeks ago about he didn't ask me about stuff he doesn't believe in...apparently, I was wrong and just not giving him enough time to bring it into conversation.
I've got a LONG list of things I'm hoping to accomplish this weekend...if I get 'em done my AOS for h should be a series of big checkmarks!!!
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Had a great weekend even though h and I didn't spend as much time together as usual...Friday night I went to acupuncture and then met up with him (wait...maybe I already posted this?) near school...drinks and dinner...a great night!
Saturday I drove him to the train in the AM so that he could go to school. I went "errand crazy" and did a bunch of things -- food shopping, made two kinds of soup, some stuff around the house. I met him in town and we went to see a movie and out for pizza. I definitely covered the LL's that day...lots of AOS and WOA, etc.
Sunday we went hiking in the AM. I had study group so I left kind of early from home. H had plans to watch the Pats game with a friend of his so I didn't actually see him until about 8:30. While he was gone I read, watched a video, took a bath -- just relaxed.
I screwed up the alarm last night and so we missed the gym this AM. It's been a few weeks since we were on a super regular schedule and I'm missing it...need to get back to it.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Wow Sage, I just read through this thread, and I feel like you've been inside my head and my soul. I'm wrestling with so many of the same issues (but I guess you know that, huh?) that you've struggled with. thanks so much for sharing. I'm going to bookmark your thread here so I can copy it later.
Gues...I'm glad you're finding this helpful! I know that I AM! It's been hard looking back so I had to take a little break...but in a way it's been so good, too!
1. my anger (over my needs not being met? over having some picture in my head? over past stuff? over being afraid?)
2. putting m. behind all other things (family, work, volunteer job, etc)
3. not listening attentively when h. talked (reading, being on computer, tv, etc)
4. not appreciating the things that h. did around the house
5. trying to control all decisions (did this out of fear? sense of superiority?)
6. not trusting h. (resulting from early conviction that men cheat then leave + my need for more details re. his life than he was willing to share)
7. not accepting h. for who he is today (partly lack of appreciation, partly not meeting the "picture in my head", partly my drive for control, etc)
8. not letting h. really love me, really "get" to me (fear. fear. fear.)
9. (maybe) not acting as though having a family together was something I wanted to do (for a while it just seemed like the wrong time, then it was putting everything else first, then it was that he didn't seem truly interested in ME)
10. not managing my reactions well to h.'s disclosures about himself (stuff that scared me, need for control)
11. overanalyzing everything (this list doesn't count! )
12. not being "fun", being too "grown-up" (because I thought I was the only adult one in the r.)
13. never dropping the rope and letting h. pick it up
14. not being directly CLEAR about what I want -- and let his reaction NOT bug me
15. setting boundaries in the wrong places -- I tried to control his behaviors instead of just letting him know clearly what my response would be
16. making him feel like a bad husband, not grown up enough, not responsible enough, not anything enough. a bad risk.
17. not making an attempt to be interested in some of the things that interest him
18. being a big giant baby when I didn't get my way.
19. always wanting my way.
20. making is seem like "his way" was almost right...but with this slight "my way" edit.
21. not seeing his romantic side. not seeing his vulnerable side.
22. being a naysayer (either directly or through silence) -- not being a cheerleader for his dreams and goals (fear, fear, fear. need for control)
23. letting this fester than blowing up.
24. making my fears, my insecurities, etc, seem like his problem
25. simply not appreciating everything that he offered every day.
26. Interpreting his "moods" and "silences" instead of just letting him be.
27. Not standing up for myself with him -- in a respectful way (to either of us)
28. being indirect about what I wanted (I might have already said this)
29. not taking seriously (enough to act) his desire to have a clean, uncluttered house
30. not respecting his time (out running errands, tack on 2-3 more stops that he didn't expect)
31. not taking his words at face value (more interpreting)
32. not seeing how much a calm environment meant to him (always hepped up about something)
Boy…there’s a pretty big meltdown on this thread…I can’t even cut/paste it because it’s far too ugly. This post is from 6/18/03 which was about 7 months post bomb:
Quote: As for the "giving up" concept -- I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't considered throwing in the towel. I love my h. I believe in our m. I believe that we will get thru this if we both want to. What I'm struggling with right now is whether or not he wants to -- and whether or not I feel like waiting for him to decide. There's a part of me that thinks that h. will ALWAYS feel like leaving me if he doesn't leave...do you know what I mean? I swear that there's a part of him that believes that there "may" be someone "better" out there...
The other thing that's weighing on my mind is what seems to be his "out" right now -- that things AREN'T better by now, ergo they never will be. I posted some time fairly recently about another poster whose h. had a second a. since he never figured she'd forgive him for the first. I'm not saying that my h is actively pursuing anything but the defeatist attitude seems to exist for him. I'm frustrated and angry that he seems to be totally disinterested, too, in educating himself about healing from infidelity and working with me.
I don't want my m. to end. I really, really, really don't. I've been hinting on the boards and also to h. that I'm not sure I can finish this healing on my own...and I'm truly not sure about that. Maybe I've still got some oomph left for the seemingly solo effort of DB'ing but eventually, I am completely convinced that we have to join forces to wring out this "you'll never trust me" "you're not trustworthy" corner case. It astonishes and perplexes and utterly wounds me that he doesn't seem able to do that with me.
More musings:
Quote: I'm feeling so darned confused right now. On the one hand, I feel like at this point, it should be ok for me to ask for reassurance re. ow and our m. and NOT have to deal with D talk and anger and whatever. On the other hand, I'm mad at myself for doing "more of the same" -- not just focusing on the great stuff that h. IS doing, needing reassurance, mistrusting, etc. I wish that I could have pushed thru this on my own but I just couldn't, I don't know why. Lack of patience, bad DB'ing, a weakness in me?
I've been noticing a definite correlation between my r. and talitsa's. In her last post she talks about how her MC told both her and h that they were both suffering from needing reassurance from each other (tho' they obviously play out their anxiety in different ways). There's a big part of me that thinks the same is true for h and me. GOD KNOWS that my anxiety and insecurity and need for reassurance is just hanging out all over the place At least that's the way it seems to me -- tho' perhaps what is so clearly FEAR in my mind looks like something completely different in h's.
BUT, what about him? Was ow in part a sign that I just wasn't loving him enough? giving him the reassurance that he needed? no doubt. SO WHAT ABOUT NOW??? (Yes, I'm yelling!) Is ow still around as a safety net? or am I just crazy (or both)? Does h think that I'm angry at him? that I don't love him? that I don't love our m?
It's not that. It really isn't. I'm terrified of giving myself completely to him and to our m. while I think ow is still around -- OR that he's still thinking "escape route" -- yet as I've said before, I don't think he'll STOP thinking escape route until he feels it fully from me.
What I was asking for the other day was some SIGN that he could take a step towards me. I don't think I can make this big, giant, scary, alligator infested leap alone. I need him to lean over and reach out his hand -- maybe risking getting bitten himself -- to help me along.
I don't know what to do now. I want to send him pointers to talitsa's threads (I won't). I want to ask him to read "after the affair" (I won't). I want to let him know how much I want his love and our m. Will I?
Well…this is more positive, right????
Quote: when I REALLY look at the impact of DB'ing on my m, though, I'm amazed at the wonderful progress that we've made -- h is talking, sharing, participating -- I'm listening more, calmed down, etc. I actually think that we've managed to add to our foundation in a way that we never have before. I guess I just get impatient. and scared.
From Shiny:
Quote: So, a conundrum: How do you ask for reassurances (which IS NORMAL...if the bloody man would just READ some of this stuff!!! ) without A) making him feel that "nothing is ever enough" B) Risking hearing that he's not ready to give such reassurances.
I really don't think your H is still hung up on OW. I get the sense (as someone said earlier) that his current "nose out of joint" is that he's been trying so hard with his ACTIONS, that your momentary backslide hit him really hard.
Hmmmm..this sounds familiar:
Quote: Totally on target! My best DB success came when I was able to focus on his needs...and you know what??? My needs got met, too, they just weren't where I focused my energies FIRST.
What are his needs?
Quote: To be forgiven. To be trusted. To not be controlled. To be allowed to show me that he is trustworthy. To feel appreciated. To feel needed. To feel competent. To be loved. To be given the freedom to make his own mistakes BUT for me to have faith that he'll do the right thing. To feel as though what he's doing is good, is enough, is satisfying. To feel as though he is a good partner to me. To feel as though as though he makes me happy.
More thoughts on asking for reassurance:
Quote: I think my h. is really, really, really sensitive to not feeling trusted...to not feeling appreciated...to feeling as though I will never be happy, what he does will never be good enough. Why? I dunno. No doubt it's partly because of how I've treated him for our m. Does it go back further than that? Can't say.
I DO think it's gonna take lots and lots and lots of appreciating him, loving him, etc. to counteract a show of anger/frustration/untrusting on my part.
He may never be at the point where he can respond to my need for reassurance w/o feeling as though it's an attack. OTOH, I've been deeply wrong before about his "limits" (goodness, how 'holier than thou' I was!) for loving me, connecting with me, etc.
I need to love him with all my might. And I need to love myself too -- reassure myself -- shore up myself -- strengthen myself. I'll show him my vulnerability but not from anger -- from the place that it's so true -- that he is capable and just the right person to alleviate my fears. If he recoils, well, I'll comfort myself.
In the meantime, I need to figure out how to ask for what I need without it always seeming like a judgement...
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Calystra’s KICK-BUTT post to me: (this one bears repeating!!)
Quote: Ok, you asked for my advice so here goes:
Sage, you are a wonderful person. You have give so much great advice to so many people, including myself - and I am forever in your debt for it because I feel that those words led me to ultimately getting my H back. So I just wanted to make it clear here that I respect you completely... but I am here as a fellow DB'er and not to pat you on the back and give you hugs this time... and I apologize in advance if this comes across as harsh.
When Umbrella pulled out the 2x4 at the beginning of this thread, I think he was right on the mark.
I began reading your threads when I came here in December and now it's almost July. If I look at your the overall content of your threads, I see the same thing over and over and over for the past 7 months! You have been in almost the exact same sitch, worrying about the same exact things, going up and down on this rollercoaster of screwing up and then apologizing! I hate to have to do this but this is a huge 2x4 whack. When are you going to get off of this track? Don't you think it's about time?
I continue to see the same thoughts over and over from you, you go through the exact same things over and over - it's like an inevitable cycle that continues to repeat itself.
Believe it or not, I actually do have some constructive things that I'm going to tack on here:
"I'm scared that the reason h. doesn't tell me things is because he still doesn't really know if he wants to be with me."
Your H struggle with expressing his feelings - even in your recent posts I can see this pretty clearly. Why do you think that your H doesn't want to tell you things? I bet you can answer that pretty quickly. What can you do to help your H express his feelings? What can you do to provide a comfortable environment for your H to share things in? What can you do to be a person your H feels comfortable sharing things with?
When you bring up OW, do you understand why your H may not be receptive to the conversation or answering your questions? "After the Affair" and DR addressed this issue specifically. (Ceb also explained this concept to me.) Bringing up the past brings up all the feelings from the past as well. It transports people back to that time and was that a good time for either of you? No! Why would anyone want to voluntarily feel that way again!
"It's been an issue before for h. that I "ruin" things -- good times with a blowup."
Why does your H feel this way? Are you guilty of this? This related to the above issue of bringing up things in the past as well.
If you want to fix this M, you MUST take control of things. You need to control yourself, your actions, your reactions, your thoughts, your words! Stop sign visualization - anything to stop the negative thoughts. You know these concepts!
It's not completely out of line to expect your H to fix some things but the burden of this is going to fall on your shoulders and you must take responsibility for fixing the M!
"I'm scared that he's still looking for an out -- that I'm ok "for now" but that he'll never feel as though he can be honest with me."
"I want to feel like part of a team."
Now, I'm not trying to say that some of your feelings aren't valid but you really need to figure out which are valid and which are simply you being overly insecure. What needs do you have that aren't being met that may lead you to feel this way? What specific things can your H do to help your feelings?
Your H has been by your side for how long now? He has been riding this rollercoaster right along with you. He has told you that he has no contact with OW. Put yourself in your H's shoes for a while - look at his feelings and thoughts. How do you see yourself through his eyes? How does that make you feel?
You also said that you were going to use that big list you wrote to formulate some goals but I don't see any new goals.... did you get around to that yet?
Whew, ok, I'm done... it's really hard for me to say things like this because I'm generally a pretty nice person but I really think you need to hear it Sage. I think you need to take this very seriously.
HAHA – even at that point I was revisiting threads to look for common themes and lessons! I mentioned that I reread my threads the other day and that it reinforced for me what Cal has been saying -- I'm stuck in a cycle of my own creation. SO many posts on my threads are like "here's a bunch of good stuff but I'm bummed anyway". I feel myself mired in that over and over and over again. Here are the common themes that I saw:
Quote: Mondays are hard for me -- I feel distant and unsure
Bringing stuff up to h is unsatisfying and actually detrimental. I hold stuff in, freak out, ask for reassurance (demand it?), don't get it, get mad, etc.
Worrying about stuff that may or may not be happening. Paranoia about ow still being around.
Feeling boring on the phone. Issues around email. Feeling rejected when he doesn't respond to my emails.
My making "ow" the "problem" instead of a symptom of the the problem
I freak out after a period of closeness and create a chaotic situation.
talking to h like a friend...asking for things like I would ask a friend...that works much better than what I'm doing.
I make huge leaps and ASSumptions when I confront h.
I need to focus on what I can control -- my behavior, my thoughts, my responses. I cannot control h., his relationships, his thoughts, his behaviors.
I feel a bit crazy when he goes to check his email.
I lose sight of the good things when I get mired in feeling sorry for myself.
I do not feel like a good wife. the kind of wife that someone is faithful to. I do not feel loveable, chooseable, sexy, pretty, smart, ENOUGH.
we both get mired in "nothing will ever change"
I get horribly stuck when I ASSume that h. is "not on my side".
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Had a quiet night last night...h is getting sick (in full blown sick mode as of the AM) so we ate light, snuggled up on the couch, just relaxed together. I had had a bad day and his was even worse so just being together was the right prescription.
H seems to be coming down with something...he's got a sore throat, congestion, etc. He stayed home from school today so I KNOW he's ill! I never feel particularly successful at being supportive during these times...stuggle with the fine line between sympathy and smothering! BUT I think I did good this AM...before I left for work I set up the fold out couch/bed in the TV room (h was still in our room)...put sheets on, blankets, put the remote controls by the bed, laid out the sports section, etc. He called earlier and made special note of it so I think he was happy.
I'll stop off on the way home and get some medicine and try to pick up some good food...I think that sometimes I overdo and make it seem like these things might "cure" him which I think is invalidating...I want to be careful to let him know that I'm trying to ease his symptoms but I'm not rushing him or invalidating his current state. Not sure that makes sense but I know what I mean!
Lots of positives last night despite the illness -- snuggling, a nice conversation about school, lots of appreciation from h about stuff done, some kind words from him, too.
Sage
PS Thanks to the visitors!!! I appreciate the positive feedback!
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I started addressing the topic of validating on my thread in Hopefulness yesterday. Now that I'm in the thick of it, I want to thank you for bringing to light another means that we invalidate others.
I hadn't realized that illness affirmation could be a forum for this topic until you illustrated a fine example. I thank you for it, because I was able to do the same with Mr. Wonderful today.
As I said at my place, validating requires the least amount of effort and thought, so why don't we choose to do it most of the time? How hard is it for me to say, "Poor H! Hope you're feeling better soon..."
So thanks for bringing this to light. I'm thinking we should start a thread on this topic too...
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Bestey -- stopped by your thread this AM as always and was delighted to see the discussion on validating. I'm glad my somewhat confusing mention of feeling like I may be invalidating to h when he's sick added to your thoughts...it's a good reminder to me, too, because while I feel like I did OK last night, I'm not sure I was able to completely "let him be as he is". I think so much of it has to do with MY discomfort of not knowing what the right thing is to do and so I'm hoping he'll hurry up and get back into healthy h mode! Actually, this could be said about other times, too (like, when he's pulled back a bit) -- hey, this is GOOD! I can practice my validating even MORE when I'm feeling uncomfortable about the status quo of the sitch!
Pam -- at some point along the way I decided that writing OW in capital letters was raising her too high in the importance scale. I switched to ow (lower case) to remind myself that despite appearances to the contrary, she was NOT the important area to focus on -- strengthening me and my M was. Just a mental trick to keep my brain thinking in the right direction.
**************** So...did so-so last night. I had acupuncture so I left work early. Stopped at the drugstore and picked up some medicine for h, then went to pick us up some soup and sandwiches for dinner. The first place I went to was closed so I had to go somewhere else which really delayed me so I called h and let him know I was running late. He was fine about that. I also stopped on the way home at the video store and picked up two movies in case h was in the mood to watch something.
The soup and sandwiches went over well. I did OK with not asking h if he was "feeling better" choosing instead to ask "how are you feeling"? Even THAT may be too probing, actually...so I need to watch that.
We watched "Jersey Girl" which was OK -- funny in spots, I think. I'd give it 1.5 stars (I'm a tough critic!). At one point during the movie h said "this is a laugh riot" really sarcastically which I have to admit bugged me/hurt my feelings (PERSONALIZATION!!). I responded with "oh, I like it but we don't have to finish watching it if you don't want" but he said we should finish it. yah, ok.
I have to admit that h seemed a bit distant (OK, he feels like crap!!!) or was it me? I think it was my insecurity about not knowing how to handle the sitch combined with feeling like maybe h was being off...mostly it's just me getting stuck in crappy cheeseless tunnels...(for example..it seemed like h was on the phone when I got home but I'm not sure...and he didn't mention it so my "what the heck is going on" radar was up...arrgh). Anyway...turns out I bought the right medicine (funnily enough, h had left me a message asking me to get the very stuff I bought but I didn't get the message because I had already left work but bought it anyway!). I was also feeling a little bummed because I sent him an e-card which I know he picked up but he didn't mention it. Ah, well, the trap of expectations!!!
Anyway...gonna work on validating and cutting him some slack...I'm leaving work early today to go help out sis with her kids so that should be fun.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
and just not giving him enough time to bring it into conversation.
Betsey 
