Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again Looking backward...but only to move forward

Quote:

---

Some more thoughts around the EA and the aftermath:
What I'm actually wondering is if it wasn't the unconditional love that ow gave him that H. craves. I've never been able to relax and truly love him -- I mean, really love him, in the way that he's wanted. I think partly because I always felt as though he was going to leave me so I was always "on guard". Now, of course, just when it feels almost impossible for me to love unconditionally, I think that may be the unblocker for us -- but it's SO hard for me to break free of my fears and insecurities.

I DO know a few things that seem to fill H's love bucket -- time with me (even just sitting watching TV), activities together (movies, dinner, hikes) and sex H. also surprised me with an evening out last week so I asked him if he liked surprises -- he said yes so I'm taking him out this weds!

---

Quote:

---

I realized yesterday that I need to believe that no matter what, I will have the kind of relationship that I want -- faithful, intimate, true. And I also know that I do many things currently that prevent that relationship in my life.

The most important step I could take in my M. would be to love my H. unconditionally and without fear.

---

I listened to a lot of books on tape during DB'ing...I'm not a huge fan of the radio and I find the differing opinions on what makes us tick interesting (h sees it differently! )

Dr. Phil holds up the mirror:

Quote:

---

As for me, I was sad too -- cried on the way home from dinner (I was alone in my car! No bad DB'ing there!). I was listening to Dr. Phil's Relationship Rescue yesterday AM and he talks about these "negative spirits" that one can have -- when he described the "unforgiving" one, I realized that my harping on the A. with H (the every three week or so freak out at him that I need reassurance) is a definite sign that I haven't forgiven him. I realized the other day that I think I bring up the A. both to get reassurance but also to have a "semi-outlet" for my residual anger at H. In other words, I bring it up as a means to hurt him (subconsciously!). Egads.

THEN, Dr. Phil described the "bottomless pit" spirit which is essentially the "insecure" one and it described me to a tee -- Never feeling satisfied, never feeling as though I have "enough", using tears and a sense of victimization instead of anger (productive anger that is), not stating my feelings for fear of the response. He talks about how burdensome the "insecure spirit" is on the partner and how it leads to a lack of honesty. Yah, no kidding.

So, I was feeling so sad yesterday for all the ways that I have screwed up. For the ways that I have treated my H. that have left him feeling inadequate, unloving, not good enough. I'm not wallowing in self-pity or insecurity here (well...maybe I was yesterday). I'm just recognizing how I've treated him -- hell, how I'm STILL treating him and I'm mad as hell at myself. What to do???

---

Quote:

---

I continued listening to "relationship rescue" this morning and am really enjoying the bluntness of it. As I mentioned yesterday, I'm so sad sometimes about the stuff that I have screwed up in this M. It's absolutely astonishing to me how poorly I've treated my H. under the guise of being "independent and unhurtable" (ha). My efforts to keep myself protected were done in "self-offense" and without being personal to H. but I can see so clearly now how much I must have hurt him and his spirit. Even just the last few weeks of dismissing his love for me....I'm grateful for what seems to be another chance from him and I hope that I am mindful enough to embrace it.

---

Quote:

---

Let's face it, it's going to take time, for both of you. Your H is working very hard, for whatever that's worth. Keep doing what you're doing, it's working like a charm. Enjoy your time together. There are good things to think about, which is displayed in the majority of your posts. Try dwelling on those when the doubts and insecurities of OW creep into your mind. Sage, you are a TERRIFIC person, and the OW can't even approach what you're capable of. Unfortunately, your H had to find this out the hard way, and ended up hurting you in the process. I read on another thread that the OM/OW may have taken their body, but they could never take their soul. I don't know if that helps you are not.

---

Quote:

---

So...where is my fear?

1. That it's all a sham and he is lying to me -- this I CANNOT control

2. That he will change his mind and no longer love me -- this I CANNOT control

3. That I am unable to love him back, that I am broken, that I am incapable of showing love in a true, intimate and committed way -- this I CAN control

4. That all the things I did to "break" the M. still exist within me -- this I CAN control

5. That I will never understand what he needs and wants. That I will never know how to love him in a way that is satisfying to him. -- This I CAN control

Message? I'm gonna work on the things I CAN control -- and, drumroll please, I'm gonna do it over in Piecing! Jumping in here with both feet, an open mind, and a respect for everything that H. is doing to mend our M.

---

Quote:

---

Found DB/DR in 12/02 and have been DB'ing since. Identified 180s pretty easily and learned quickly to shut up, listen and stop trying to control everything. H. has been very reponsive to efforts and has become very loving and attentive.

The biggest thing I run into now is not knowing whether H and ow are still in contact. H's actions are very positive and loving but he has struggled with the words of reassurance. I've been having a very hard time dealing with that but have also recognized (through DB'ing and IC) that I DO have trust and intimacy issues, that I HAVE been keeping H at arms length for the course of our M, that I HAVE been waiting ALL ALONG for H. to cheat and then leave me 'cause I'd convinced myself that I DESERVED to be hurt then left.

Have made the leap to Piecing after recognizing that the things that I CAN control are my own actions -- my desire to love and appreciate my H and M, my desire to learn how to satisfy H's needs, my desire to stop treating myself as damaged goods. What I CANNOT control is H. And I CANNOT control whether or not I will be lied to and hurt. I cannot live my life any longer expecting the worst to happen. I must chose to live it with an open heart.

Found DB/DR in 12/02 and have been DB'ing since. Identified 180s pretty easily and learned quickly to shut up, listen and stop trying to control everything. H. has been very reponsive to efforts and has become very loving and attentive.

The biggest thing I run into now is not knowing whether H and ow are still in contact. H's actions are very positive and loving but he has struggled with the words of reassurance. I've been having a very hard time dealing with that but have also recognized (through DB'ing and IC) that I DO have trust and intimacy issues, that I HAVE been keeping H at arms length for the course of our M, that I HAVE been waiting ALL ALONG for H. to cheat and then leave me 'cause I'd convinced myself that I DESERVED to be hurt then left.

Have made the leap to Piecing after recognizing that the things that I CAN control are my own actions -- my desire to love and appreciate my H and M, my desire to learn how to satisfy H's needs, my desire to stop treating myself as damaged goods. What I CANNOT control is H. And I CANNOT control whether or not I will be lied to and hurt. I cannot live my life any longer expecting the worst to happen. I must chose to live it with an open heart.

---

Quote:

---

I need to keep focusing on the behavior that works -- talking less, listening more, not controlling (or trying to control) H. out of fear, remaining calm, acting "as if", not questioning H.

---

Quote:

---

I reiterated what I said before -- that I was often confused about what had happened and that I felt like if I didn't understand the root cause, I didn't know how to keep it from happening again. H. said that he didn't think that it was that logical -- that the A wasn't the "thing" but that we were too different -- that I was always "analyzing and chewing things into little bits" and that he was more relaxed and able to just let stuff be. He said that I was always reading books and listening to tapes to find "the answer". And that he didn't think that I would ever be happy.

we talked a bit about what life was like before the A and he said that I always seemed so unhappy and searching and expecting something from him. He said that one of the reasons that he thinks he had the A was that I kept acting like he was cheating on me -- mistrustful and suspicious -- and he says he thinks there was a part of him that wanted to just "give you what you were looking for". I agreed with him that I had been unhappy, that I was always looking for the other shoe to drop, that I had been so afraid and confused and that in my fear, had tried to control and manipulate him.

Without sounding angry, he just sounded resigned that the M. was over -- due to our "differences" in personality. He said that neither one of us was bad or broken but that he didn't see how we could ever make it work and that he would "kill himself" if we were still having this same conversation at 65. He said that he's known me forever and that things will never change.

I asked him if he had seen changes in us over the last few months because I certainly had. I told him how much I appreciated his efforts at our M. and he said that he had done it consciously that he had decided to "love me as much as" he could "to see if it would help but it didn't". I told him that when I could see through my fears over the last few months, that I've had many joyful moments with him. He said something like "I haven't really done much" and I responded with a list of the small things that he's been doing (meeting me at the door, making plans for us, calling just to chat, the surprise events, etc) that have meant so much.

He said that he feels an undercurrent of anxiety from me and that he can't live his life wondering if tonight is the night when his wife is going to burst into tears. I told him that he was right about the anxiety and that a lot of it was based in not feeling as though we could talk about his A.
I asked him when the A started and he said sometime last spring but he didn't have "an anniversary date". He said that he knew that it was wrong and that early on he told ow that it would be over some day. He said that because he said that over and over to her that by the time I found out and the A ended, that he had already detached and it didn't feel like a big deal to him to end it. I made some comment like "well, she was a big part of your life" and he said "I don't know if this makes it worse but she wasn't.". I made some not-very-nice comment about why her and he said "why not her? do you think I'd pick someone like you? she's nothing like you" I asked what that meant and he said "she doesn't over analyze anything. and she doesn't have your 'towering intellect'" (note that this was said without sarcasm -- I'm assuming it's not my brainpower that irks H. but how I use it!)
When we went to bed, he told me that he loved me, was affectionate (holding my hand) as we were falling asleep. This morning I got a quick hug in bed (I love those!) and we went to a 6am spinning class together. When we got home and were standing around the kitchen, H. thanked me for the conversation of last night and thanked me for "hearing through" his convoluted way of conversing. I told him that the conversation hadn't seemed convoluted at all and that I really appreciated him talking with me so honestly.

So. Where are we now? Well, it's clear to me that I need to keep doing the work on myself that I was doing -- for me, for H., for M. It's also pretty clear to me that I need to work on how to communicate my feelings without them being a "monkey wrench" in the system (or a major blowup). I need to let go of A. I need to stop aplogizing for who I am. And, I need to work on striving for my happiness.

I also think that H. and I are doing the right things in our M. for the most part. The going out, the intimacy, the element of surprise, the celebration of our love, etc. I have to "relax into it" as I've said before -- but, I knew that!

I love that my H. put his mind to loving me as much as he could -- I'm feeling good that last night's conversation didn't derail that effort as painful and scary as it was.

---

Quote:

---

I'm still struggling with just giving up control of this (obviously). I can feel the resistance here and I know that it is doing absolutely nothign to getting me toward my goal of a loving and stable M. I'm tired of basing how I feel about myself and my M. on how H. has behaved that day OR on how I've interpreted his behavior. Isn't he entitled to off moments? Aren't I? I read over my thread and thing "wow, there's so much good here" and then I get stuck in "does he love me. does he want me. how could he hurt me that way. why is he so intolerant of the time it's taking me/us to heal." etc.

---

Quote:

---

My H. has shown me over the last few months that he IS willing to be an equal partner in this M. So many of the behaviors that felt unbearable to me (withholding, not interested in our future, not interested in the house, cleaning, our finances, etc) are gone.

Do you ever ask yourself this question -- if I won the lottery tomorrow, would I stay married? 8 months ago I think I would have wavered on the answer -- (note that my M. isn't about money the lottery aspect is just to imply that I could create a new life anywhere, anyhow). Asking myself that question today, the answer is a solid YES.

He is present. He is trying every day. He has unblocked so many of his issues -- all of them? probably not -- but he is acting invested in our M. in a way that he never has.

If I stay mired in this state, I will lose what I have wanted. I believe that I WILL drive him away. Not that it isn't fair to be sad and angry during the healing process. Of course it is, but, I'm stuck way more than he is right now.

My H wants a M that is relaxed and loving and unchaotic. For a long time, my anger was centered around the fact that he seemed unable to connect with me -- so much of that seems to be gone -- and yet my anger remains.

I'm not beating myself up here -- I just came to the recognition today that I need to strengthen myself. I need to get away from the fear and anxiety which clouds my days.

---

Quote:

---

As for your "sabotaging" emotions - i think it's common at this point, after the focus shifts a little from all our goal-oriented DBing, we have to deal with some of the painful emotions we had to stuff down (and that our H's may still not be up to dealing with). Also - it's scary to be vulnerable in the R again. I find exercise helps, the "stop sign" technique helps, and spending lots of quality time together helps. I seem most vulnerable when we drift back into our busy routine and aren't really "connecting" as much during the day - I am still rather dependent on hearing those positive affirmations from my H. Fortunately my H's business schedule gave us several weekends away just when we needed them the most.

---

Quote:

---

During meditation this morning, I realized that one of the things that I yearn for with H. is to feel "needed" by him. I don't really -- I'm not overtly a confidant for him or a guide. This is just FYI -- I don't think it's a good or bad thing that I've identified this -- it was just the first time it occurred to me that sometimes when I feel sad it's due to that feeling. An important note to me is that H. may need me in a thousand different ways that I do not recognize. Another important note is that the way that he loves me is whole, unique and just right. I do not need to look for more than that. I'm not sure I'm making sense -- just journalling!!!

One thing that’s true is that I’m still sad/afraid at how quickly h can return to “I want a D” when things get tense between us. I do still feel sometimes like I’m untethered…like he finds it easy to return to “go it alone mode”. I’d be lying if I said that that doesn’t bother me in many ways…

---

Quote:

---

Why do I find myself back with the fear and the closed heart over things that I cannot control?

Why can't I remember how I've been yearning for the return of my romantic and loving partner and that this does NOTHING to get me there?

Why can't I let go of stuff that I know NOTHING about? And never will?

And…
I am allowing my insecurities and mistrust and fears to get the better of me. This is crazy! I cannot control this. I have no reason to think that ANYTHING untoward is going on. And yet, I put myself back in this cheeseless tunnel again and again. I have to stop doing this to myself.

More…

How can I stop screwing myself up all of the time? Is it just going to be this iterative process of making mistakes and recovering? Maybe I need to read dr again. No doubt I need to put some goals down on paper. I just keep falling back into the same old trap of obsessing over stuff -- not treating him as a friend, not valuing what he's offering, not trusting him, not hearing what he's saying.

so much good stuff goes on here and yet I end up messing up over and over and over.

---

Quote:

---

What's really gotten better:
H is much more loving and affectionate with me

H is MUCH more interested in our life together (house, finances, etc)

H seems much happier with himself and with me

H is much more romantic with me

I am a much better listener (and H. is talking a lot more)

I have identified some areas w/in myself that are in need of, say, focus

I am less controlling of H. than I used to be (much less inclined to try to direct him in terms of job, etc)

I have a clearer picture of the things that interest H.

I have stopped taking my M and H for granted.

I have invested time and energy into understanding myself, understanding H and our M

I am able to notice positive things in our M more readily (this still need more focus)

I am able to hear the different ways/languages that H. uses to tell me that he loves me

H. and I have successfully talked about more than one difficult topic

All in all, H is significantly more loving and interested in me and our M than ever. And, I have taken the time to see and appreciate that!

What still needs work:
Banishing thoughts of OW (still, getting lots better)

Working on my own demons -- abandonment, mistrust, fear

Working on stopping my tacit attempts to control H

Working on not seeking the negative in the face of all the positives

Working on not creating crises just because they are my comfort zone

Working on self-managing my feelings when they make sense

Working on bringing up my feelings with H. in a timely fashion (as opposed to freaking out)

Working on distracting myself from negative thoughts, assumptions

Working on NOT mind-reading and NOT expecting H. to mind read

Working on believing good things about H. and about our M.

---

Quote:

---

As long as I'm baring my soul here, I just had another insight (in the ladies room of school of all places). We know that I have "an issue" with security -- looking for grounding and certainty when life is uncertain. Seeing suggestions of change and ambivalence as dire threats, etc.

Well...I just realized that part of the problem is that I ASSume that H. is toying with my sense of security. In essence, that his "cavalier" attitude (not really, but my ASSumption) is a thumbing his nose as my desire for security. SO...that I'm feeling angry (more likely hurt or taken advantage of) by him and that that is piled on top of my fears. BUT -- H. isn't toying with me. He isn't jerking me around or being a bad guy. He's talking about normal stuff. What's making me feel that way is that mom and dad WERE adults and should have been caring enough to say to each other: look, we're not sure we're breaking up. Let's put some adult plans in place BEFORE we tell the kids. Let's not jerk them around.

But they didn't. And they didn't do it once. or twice. they did is over and over and over again. So, it's not just that my fears are reaching into the past -- so is the feeling that someone is doing it on purpose. Keeping me without the ground under my feet on purpose. Because shouldn't two grownups KNOW if not the FIRST time, certainly the second time that MAYBE they weren't sure they were splitting up so just shut up!

I don't know if this makes any sense. I've been picturing H. pulling the safety net out from under me on purpose (the on purpose part being the interesting key here). it isn't him that's giving me that feeling....AND, eventually I'll probably recognize that mom and dad were doing the best that they could, too.

---

Quote:

---

Just wanted to post a couple of things I read on other threads as a reminder to myself...

20% of "us" give up the first time we get winded. We can't tolerate the ebb and flow of emotions.

Not sure of the stat but given where I was yesterday, I know this feeling. I forgot to keep the end goal in mind which is rebuilding my M.

And, on a related note: Someone wise wrote that they get excited when they see folks doing things (DB'ing?) despite the fear.

THIS is where I end up...afraid that my efforts are wasted or worse, afraid that I'm going to be the best DB'er in the world, give myself to my M. wholeheartedly and it's still gonna collapse -- so I retreat in fear when I encounter resistance (either his or mine). Again, a lot of what happened yesterday.

So, how'd I do? I made it through without "losing it" -- got back on the DB horse and all.

---

Quote:

---

Trudged into work this morning feeling a bit sad. Last night was good -- got my haircut, got some chinese food. Got home and H said some good stuff (but no compliment about my awesome haircut! rats!). Held hands a bit while watching tv, etc.

Still have this undercurrent that something's wrong, though. Is it his back? His stomach? Something else? Me? Feeling down made me feel even MORE down -- wouldn't his response be "what more do I have to do to make you happy? You'll never be happy." Is that true? Thinking about it made me sad. Felt broken, wished for a time when I felt OK in my own skin, not like someone who wishes her heart could mend. Dragged myself even further down wondering if there IS something wrong with me -- (well, beyond the things I post about!). Wondered if a new relationship was the way to go. Wondered if I'd just carry the same old crap there. Wondered if anyone would ever find me attractive, want to date me, want to marry me.

Came in and read shiny's thread. Then Teach. Then this morning LL captured SO many of my thoughts.

H. called. Had an ok conversation but halfway through was back to feeling sorry for myself. What is bothering him? Why does he seem so distant? Or is it me? Why can't I be back in an R. where things didn't feel so conflicted? We WERE that way once tho' it's been more than a year.

THEN, I had to call H. for some info. He picked up the phone in a rush and when I asked what was up he said somewhat sourly "I was bringing the groceries in and I HAD to run upstairs to pick up the phone". Light goes off, mood lightens. No you didn't. You didn't HAVE to run upstairs to pick up the phone. You chose to. Be grumpy about it if you want but it's your own choice.

Just like it's my choice. I don't know why but his irritation over something that he chose to do just unblocked me. I don't own his distance -- I own mine. I don't own his feelings -- I own mine. I don't own his views or commitment to our M. I own mine.

What do I want? I want to feel and be strong, to feel and be happy, to feel and be loved and loving. I own that too.

I'm not saying all my fears have evaporated. I'm just saying that it was a kick in the pants. H. can have "itchy butt" -- so can I -- there's no rules around how I "have to feel". Frankly, today I'm choosing to feel good about me.

---

Quote:

---

When do I get stuck? When do I get mired? Why have I been so down, so angry, so hurt????

I get stuck when I assume that H. is NOT on my side. I get stuck when I think that he is purposefully trying to hurt me. I strike back against my ASSumptions. I withhold, I am angry, I feel justified in my anger.

WHAT could be the bigger F*&^ you than H's A???? What could convince me over and over and over again that he doesn't hold my safety in high regard? That he does not seek to protect me. Even worse? That he seeks to hurt me.

AND, today, yesterday, any time in the present, assuming that they are STILL in touch, still connected, well, if FEELS like a big old F*&^ YOU, SAGE, all over again. Because I ASSUME that he is trying to hurt me, confuse me, put me in jeopardy.

BUT, he isn't.

H is on my side. He is my friend. When I remember that, I feel joyful and loving. When I intrepret (arrgh) his actions with the filter of hate and hurt, I want to hurt back. I feel demoralized and depressed and unloved and unsafe.

I need to stop ASSuming. I need to stop interpreting. I need to remember that H. is on my side and loves me. I need to remember the best. I need to be his friend and let him be mine. I need to let go of my anger.

---

Quote:

---

I'm not sure if it's the "stars" that drive me towards my tendencies or my upbringing (that old nature/nurture argument!). I CAN say that I think I've spent a lot of time blaming H. or being angry at H for things that had nothing to do with him and everything to do with whatever filters/defense mechanisms/whatever I developed growing up. I'm not going to blame my parents or wallow in that for TOO long but I've REALLY been able to see how my method of coping as a kid has REALLY screwed up my ability to be present in my M AND to let my H know how much I love him. He has really paid for a lot of crap that he didn't deserve.

---

So...in some ways I feel like I'm cramming for an exam...4 threads down (reflecting about 5 months of DB'ing) and a jillion to go...here's something absolutely alarming that I have gleaned in this "read thru" (and this will NOT come as a surprise to anyone who's been hanging with me...) GOOD, GOOD stuff was happening very consistently and at the first sign of distance from h I would sink into a "things are great BUT..." syndrome. Heck, sometimes there wasn't EVEN a sign of h being distant...it was more about him being quiet, being lowkey, being HIM.

NOW, I'm not gonna beat myself up for it...it was only 5 months post finding out about the A but it's alarming (really!) how many posts there are that are really, really good and they are followed up with a "I feel bad" post that then launches into how crappy things are...

Yah, I know. You told me so.



Sage

Quote:

---

Hi Sage - It is both an inspiration, and a comfort to travel back through your eyes - and see, with hindsight, the signs that things were working. It really is more about our own ability to handle ourselves, isn't it?

Slowly

---

Slowly -- thanks so much for the kind words. I started feeling a bit self-indulgent yesterday for revisiting all of these threads but then I realized that I DO want one place to visit and remind myself what really works to turn things around...

It does seem to all come back to focusing on what we can control within ourselves. I'm also re-listening to Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus and I'm reminded yet again how that text really helps me get my head out of my butt (when combined with DB'ing, of course!)

****************
had a great night with h. we had planned to meet at home but he had some last minute work to do so he asked me to pick him up at the subway and go to dinner. I think I scored some points by being accommodating to the change of plans Since he couldn't meet until 8:30 I went home first and took care of a bunch of small things around the house. I had been lazy at home lately but Ellie (KML)posted on a thread in newcomers and I was reminded by how these little AOS really resonate with h so I kicked it up a notch!

I picked him up and we ate. He was bursting with info about school and it was very exciting to see how enthusiastic he is! He was talking about a whole bunch of stuff but then kept asking me about me, as well. On the way home he read me some parts of his paper, saying that he "loves to bounce stuff off of me" that is VERY cool!

He's got a big interview at 4pm EST so please send good vibes!!!

Sage

Quote:

---

One of the things that I hear from H is that when I hold thing in for too long, I give off a "vibe" that leaves him tense and upset. So, the key is, how to I shed the things that don't need to be discussed, touch lightly on the things that do and hold "onto myself" if he doesn't respond well? Getting my voice back -- not shrill and controlling but confident and sure. That's the key.

One of the sad parts for me is that H. is often defensive when I ask for reassurance...not sure if that's because I ask for it too often? But, something about the way I phrase it seems to leave him feeling as though I am judging my insecurity and sadness as HIS failure. Not my intent!

---

Quote:

---

Some days I feel strong - I feel sure that I will be ok no matter what. I recognize that life is as it is and that my tendancy to control is fear based -- when the fear isn't there, I feel more sure of myself -- more certain that I can handle whatever comes my way. That takes the pressure off me NEEDING to know the unknowable -- not that H is being faithful but that he will ALWAYS be here, etc.

Some days I don't feel strong and that's when I focus my precious energy on useless things -- when I replay what I read and saw and expand on it -- when I wonder if they are laughing at me, plotting, back to the same old, same old. Back to the big "eff-you, sage".

I know in my heart that the only way to let go is to just do it. To accept that I cannot control my H. or his wants, desires and actions. To walk directly into the fire of loving someone who has hurt me deeply, has hurt himself, too. To remind myself over and over and over again that loving him with all of my heart through all of my fears is never, ever going to be a bad thing. Really.

---

Quote:

---

Here is what I do whenever I need to talk to husband about something that has reached "code orange" for me.

1) First of all, I try not to let the toxic build up go so long that I've reached "code red", because by then, I'm misfiring emotional missiles right in my own face. This is not to say that in "code orange" I'm not feeling plenty of emotion and fear, just that I'm still able to man-the-controls a bit better.

2) I only approach the subject when I sense H is not distracted with what he thinks are important things and is in at least a somewhat neutral or open mood.

3) I begin by looking him in the eyes and assuring him that I am not angry with him nor do I wish to guilt or hurt him in any way and that I am not looking to assign blame. I let him know that I am simply siphoning off some uncomfortable feelings that are making me feel bad.

4) I try to keep the issues that are bothering me seperated from H. I treat it as an exercise in dissipting negative energy into the atmosphere, but not on, at or into H.

5) In asking "those" questions, whenever I get what appears to be an honest answer, I tell him in a calm and warm voice, "I appreciate you telling me the truth".
I say this even if it isn't exactly what I wanted to hear.
If I have good cause to believe his response was a lie, I simply do not respond and wait a bit before either one of us decides to continue on.

6) I always touch or hug him when the conversation is over. Also, I try to be the one who ends it.

7) I try to follow-up, at an appropriate time, some sort of act of kindness or to do something that I know that will help fill his love tank (from the "Five Love Languages) as a "thanks for listening and responding" gesture. I keep it subtle and incidental so that it won't be obvious to him, but hopefully, on a subconcious level he will relate his compliance to listening and conversing with a pleasant aftermath.

8) I do this sparingly and on a needs-only-basis.

---

Quote:

---

OK, I think I'm seeing a trend here. I could be wrong, but it seems like every time things are going well between you guys, you start getting those feelings of insecurities, or DBIDKHTBAGW, as you would call it. Quit beating yourself up. Don't know how to be a good wife? Listen, there are probably a hundred guys around here who would kill for their wives to act like you are. So don't give me that, I'm not buying it.

I sometimes wonder if there is still some resentment from the A that you haven't been able to let go of. Therefore, when things start going well, maybe you feel like they SHOULDN'T be going well, and find a way to pull back. OK, I'll shut up now, before I get busted for practicing psychiatry without a license.

Sage, I think maybe it's time for you to just sit back and enjoy the ride for awhile, without trying to analyze everything so much. You've worked so hard on trying to keep your M together. Now your H is joining in, so maybe it's time to let him. Relax, and enjoy the gift you've been given. As you know, not everyone receives this gift. Cherish it, and most of all, have a good time. Take a break, before you burn yourself out.

---

Quote:

---

Came face to face with one of the root causes of my anxiety this morning reading another M. newsgroup -- someone was "role playing" what a person whose S. had cheated might be thinking...in it the person said something like "I wish I could stop feeling as though he has one foot out the door. I know that I have to let my guard down to heal this marriage but it feels impossible when I wonder every day if today is the day he's leaving".

Couldn't have summed up my feelings more perfectly. H's "well, I'm here now, aren't I?" stance isn't comforting to me... I wish that I had words of reassurance from him that he is interested in working on the M. But I don't, and I won't, so I'm sitting in the garden of fear and insecurity and anxiety. And it ends up being too easy for me to think "I have to protect myself here -- through distance or anger or leaving first -- emotionally or physically -- before he leaves me".

Of course, none of that gets me closer to my goal, right?

So, I'm trying to bravely face the fear. Not dismissing it, not judging it (or me!), just sitting with it.

I am afraid that H. has one foot out the door. I am afraid that without some focus from him on fixing our M that it will not be healed. I am afraid that if I give myself fully, he will leave anyway. I am afraid to expose myself. I am afraid to open my heart fully.

I know that if I don't, I will not be giving my all to M or H. I know that I have to take the leap -- allowing for the possibility that I may lose everything -- if I'm going to win anything.

I am afraid of being hurt.

---

Quote:

---

What does he want? I think he wants to be loved unconditionally, to exist in peace, to be understood, to be heard, to be appreciated, to be loved, to be needed, to be important, to not be immersed in conflict, to be admired, to be successful. What else? Can I give him those things? Can I do it in the face of all of my fear and anxiety?

---

Quote:

---

I do think that I've been frustrated over not getting what I think I need in the "way" that I need it from H. A good example is my need for reassuring words from him when I'm feeling insecure...for whatever reason, 8 out of 10 times when I ask him for verbal reassurance I don't get it. I'm not sure if it's because my request isn't clear OR if he can't give it to me because he's battling his own interpretation of the request (like, he sees my request as a judgement on HIM so he can't respond) or a thousand other things...I just know that many times, when I need words, I don't get them. Will I ever? Well, I hope that we get to a place where he's able to give them more and I'm able to ask for them less...does that make sense?

When I quiet down and "listen", I can hear my H's language and hear what he is offering to me...the problem happens when I am in my high-anxiety, low-confidence mode...my "tuners" only latch onto MY language and I miss what he's saying....

---

Quote:

---

I don't actually know what to do with all of this...I realize that I have placed a huge burden on h (unfair, too) to make me feel whole and right and chosen. I realize that I've stripped away everything else, too, that could and should be part of me and my life -- a satisfying job, family, friends, etc and have stood in front of h and said, ok it's your job to make me feel good. A thousand times not fair.

So...how do I know? Well, first things first, right? I gotta strip off the BS from the past and take that burden off h. Then I've got to pull off all the present crap -- gotta rebuild my life with work, friends, family. Not fair for him to shoulder all of that! Gotta fill up the "sage" hole, too -- that stuff that only comes from me. What'll be left is what's aok to expect from my spouse.

How to get there? take care of the past with mindfulness work -- get rid of all the cobwebs and crap. take care of the present with DB'ing -- rebuild my life, "choose" myself. Revel in the wonderful stuff that h does every day. Appreciate him, love him, choose him. Stop making him pay for everything that happened before him. Am I still making him pay for his A? gotta figure that out.

---

Quote:

---

well, I wouldn't actually say that this was BAD -- actually, it was probably info that I can USE but ...well...during the conversation about whether or not it was too soon to get another cat, I said something like "I just have this love to give...it needs to be given" and H said "and of course you can't give it to me". Hmmm. He didn't say it seriously really and I asked him if he didn't feel loved by me and he said he was just joking but...well...it seemed like an odd comment to make if there didn't feel like SOME element of truth to it, no?

For the past few months (6-8 weeks) I think I have backed off of loving H overtly -- maybe it's a cyclic thing but I thought I was doing it in response to him backing away from me!!!! He's been more distant (I think), has pretty much stopped initiating , got irked a few weeks ago when I initiated (got defensive), hasn't made a surprise plan or suggested champagne, or whatever. I thought he was backing off because something had happened...and I backed off to not pressure him (and probably to not completely humiliate myself). Anyway, I got the feedback that maybe he's not feeling completely loved...

---

Quote:

---

>> I would like to get through the next BIG phase (the little ones come and go) of what I will now call "ow-funk" without freaking out on myself or h.

Things that work:
* not asking questions
* not ASSuming anything (call waiting clicks in, must be ow, etc)
* Keep busy/distracted when h is on computer
* don't set myself up -- don't call during "peak worry hours"
* recognize when I'm just feeling badly about myself for other reasons (work, family, etc) and know that that makes me vulnerable to ow-funk
* no mindreading
* remember that h is my friend, is on my side
* it helps when h tells me what he's doing on the computer (like comments on an article he's read, etc)
* it helps when h tells me details about his day

How can I encourage those behaviors?
* be interested and focused when h is talking with me
* listen
* be patient -- with him, with me, with babysteps
* don't ask questions (cannot be stated often enough)
* remember that things aren't always on my timetable
* be calm
* be forgiving
* be forthright
* take myself away from the sitch if I'm feeling really unsure -- go for a walk, movie, shopping, etc.

I will make a conscious effort to calm myself the next time I feel the major wave of insecurity w/o creating a crisis at home.

---

Quote:

---

I have to stop thinking about ow. I have to stop giving her the mental time of day. she is NOTHING. we're coming up on a year now of me thinking about her and her r with my h and on and on. I am sick of it. I am tired of picturing her. I am tired of rehashing her behavior with me, with my h. I am tired of re-reading the words over and over and over again that she wrote to my h. I am tired of feeling as though she has stolen things from me -- time, memories, special events, my h's heart. I am tired of feeling humiliated that she lied to my face over and over. I am tired of feeling victimized because she and my h carried on their a in full view of our friends. I am tired of thinking that she's winning or has won. I am tired of feeling as though I am somehow LESS of a person due to her presence -- past, present, future.

I am not less of anything because of her. I am not less of anything because h chose to be with her. She is nothing to me. And, his choices were his own.

I am tired of giving my h the message that he is untrustworthy. I am tired of trying to control what I cannot to make me feel better in some warped way (does it work?). I should be spending the mental energy I devote to her to curing cancer, fighting hunger, saving drowning puppies.

I think that my h wants to be married to someone who loves him, cherishes him, trusts him, values him, believes in him, supports him, leans on him, knows him but knows there's always something more to know. I want to be married to the same.

Every day that I think of her, I bring a third person into our m. Why would I ever expect HIM to stop thinking about her when I cannot? Choose not to?

I realized two days ago the perfect revenge -- the perfect missing piece I've been looking for -- it's getting my life back, it's making my marriage as awesome as it can be. WHAT could be a better revenge than that? AND, it works for me too. I want my life and love back.

So...I'll keep the goal to manage the ow-extremes -- when insecurity gets me so far down that I can't imagine being the one. I'll work on being mindful, I'll work on managing ME, etc. BUT, that's not enough....

she's gone. no casual thoughts. no wonder. no rehashing. It won't be easy or automatic. It's going to take work. I can shut it down, slam down the lid.

She's not getting any more of my time.

---

Quote:

---

Yah -- the thing that C and I discussed was twofold -- that I struggle with things that I can't control (and HAVE tried to control them with very negative results -- much of my "bad" behavior early in m was to try to "control" h out of fear) but also that I hold myself to unrelenting standards in an effort to control stuff -- like, IF I'm the PERFECT wife then he will be less likely to cheat, leave, whatever. I can do a pretty good job of beating myself up when I get started -- why did I say that, why didn't I say this, on and on. I think the solution is also twofold -- recognize and accept the things that I cannot control (I think I've heard that somewhere!) and work on ME so that I finally realize that I'm "worthy" even if imperfect.

I don't think that my constant self-monitoring draws h any closer to me either...if anything, I've heard from him that my being on overdrive is a turnoff.

---

Quote:

---

Some things that are working:
Listening more and REALLY listening (not distracted, etc)

(Finally) Letting h. make decisions for him and for us without my input

Noticing, appreciating and thanking him for ALL of the things that he does for us

Going out together (movies, dinner, drinks, etc)

Staying in together

Being truly interested in the things that interest him

Not freaking out when he seems "distant"

Maintaining my PMA, myself!

Understanding and stopping the behaviors that impacted our M (working on this)

Stopping my obsession with ow (ok, obsession is too strong of a word -- but putting her out of my mind)

Relinquishing control for everything

Asking him what HE thinks

Releasing my anger

Forgiving him and myself

Meditating every day!

Being honest with myself about what's real and what's in my mind

Treating him with respect (I hope he feels this) because he truly deserves it

Recognizing that I have been angry at him for a lot of things that were not his fault. Apologizing for that.

---

Quote:

---

I do not see how I can create a life (and m.) that contains honesty and passion and love and happiness and gratitude and courage and forgiveness and joy...unless I am living those things.

If I want honesty in my m. and life, I must be living honestly. If I want passion, I must be living passionately. If I want happiness and joy, I must be living happily and with joy.

You get the point.

Instead of courage, I've been living in fear. Instead of optimism, I've been living with doubt. How can my marriage be based on trust if I am untrusting?

I know that this isn't a canned solution -- I'm not fooling myself into thinking that it's all up from here -- and I'm not intending to push the sadness away if it is there -- or to beat myself up for it. I just don't have to LIVE it, I don't have to DEFINE myself as it, I don't have to let it permeate my life and my m. each day.

I can live with honesty and joy and passion and love and gratitude and enthusiasm and confidence and ....

I need to radiate the things that I want in my life and they will come back to me. How can I expect joy if I cannot give it?

---