Adding insult to injury, she usually says that she was so close to feeling comfortable with me, but that I just set us back a few weeks with my pressure.
i did get that this time, 'I was feeling better about us sexualy and now you have taken the emotion out of it'
as a side note, Around a year ago, after me pushing she did talk to her doctor about taking testosterone, the doctor tok some blood test and told her that she didn't need to but could take it to see if it increase her desire. She did agree, but didn't get around to filling the perscription. After a few months I pushed and she did go to the pharmacy, she was given it in a pill form. After a few weeks on it she said she didn't like how it made her feel, but would ask about it in cream form. Her doctor changed the perscription, she got a cream and a small measuring spoon to scoop some out and apply it anywhere. She started to take it, I did se some increase in desire from her when she did, but not too much. I looked and found out that she had been using the '30 day supply' for 60 days and there was still half left, she told me that she didnt use the spoon but scoped out some on her finger. When I suggested that she should use the scoop to get the correct amount she told me she didn't have to, she knew how much to use.
A few weeks later, I noticed that the container was still nearly half full, when I asked her about it she said that she didn't like the way it made her feel and stopped using it.
Ok, this brings up a bunch of points, 1) She did agree to go, but it took a few months and my nagging for her to get the perscription filled. She didn't understand how important this issue is if she didn't bothor to do it. (she normally is very prompt taking care of things, this wasn't normal behavior for her).
2) Why not take the dose the doctor told her to? She works in a analytical field where correct measurments are very important, I dont hink she was so far off by accident. When a 30 day supply is lasting 60 days without being finished, she had to know something wasent right.
3) When she stopped taking it, why didn't she tell me. I can't blame her for not wanting to take it if affects her. Really, I would't want her to sacrafice health taking it. But why not be honest with me.
Hairdog, I'm not sure if I told you the story to help you out, or spleen vent (or both), but there it is..
Do you realize you used the word "pushed" twice? I think her issue was that she didn't want to take testosterone. Was this a reasonable request on her part? After all the doctor said her levels are "normal", whatever that means. And side effects can be unpleasant.
I know that we would prefer that desire problems are medical, because then their is a potential quick fix. But if the problems are relational, well there is no quick fix. In fact, there is no guaranteed fix at all. And the fact that you "pushed" her on this probably worsened your relationship issues.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
What were the side effects, just out of curiosity?
Btw, I know this is not the most politically correct thing to say, but I don't for a minute believe that all sexual problems are the result of relational problems. The relational problems can exacerbate a sticky situation (or nonsticky one, lol) but sometimes it is a matter of one person refusing to change or cooperate, for their own reasons.
That is, they'd rather see the relationship go down the tubes than stretch themselves and grow. That prospect is too scary for them.
I hope this is not a depressing message; personally I'm having a nice day. I am just a realist, I suppose.
Socal, I think you need to get REAL with her. When she says that the book was too different and you respond Different can be good... I think that approach is too soft. It is vague and, really, it stops there, kwim? You say it can be good and that's the end of that. She is free to think, No it isn't and there is no resolution. Next time, you might want to say "I am no longer satisfied with the way things are right now. I want and need something 'different' once in a while. I don't see myself being able to stay happy in this R without your attention to this."
I think that we HD people want to cloak our language too often, both to protect the other person (whom we love) and to not make ourselves look like psychos. But once you lay it on the line--this is who I am--it is liberating.
Are you selling your wife short? Do you think she can handle seeing the real you?
I was terrified to really 'show' myself to my H and I still don't know if he likes or understands the real me, but I can say that I feel a lot better now that I stopped selling myself out, in order to protect his feelings.
He does the same thing with me. Sometimes I'm sure his responses seem downright mean to me, but I appreciate his honesty and his courage in showing me who he really is. It leads to the "begrudging respect" that Lillie wrote about on her other post.
One more question: In what way did your wife think that things were going better? Was it really improving in this area? Maybe she needs some validation that, yes, that area is great! and can we also work on XYZ area?
I think that we HD people want to cloak our language too often, both to protect the other person (whom we love) and to not make ourselves look like psychos. But once you lay it on the line--this is who I am--it is liberating.
I think it gets worse than this, and at the risk of trivializing things,
You don’t want to hurt someone you love. I know these things no mater how you try to make it supportive have to hut the LD person. Sounds noble (or stupid) but I would rather ‘take the hit’ than let my W, and I know my protective side makes me take more of the pain, lets her off the hook to easy, and ultimately prevents faster actions to problems. On paper easy to say, in reality its ‘tough to hut the ones you love’.
Quote:
One more question: In what way did your wife think that things were going better? Was it really improving in this area? Maybe she needs some validation that, yes, that area is great! and can we also work on XYZ area?
That would have been the question to ask!! Now here is the problem, what if she thinks X is better, but I don’t. We need to address it but tough to do that while being honest and encouraging.
Do you realize you used the word "pushed" twice? I think her issue was that she didn't want to take testosterone. Was this a reasonable request on her part?
A bit of background, her levels were ‘normal’ but the doctor agreed she has low desire and thought that the testosterone would help. (didn’t want to sound like I am pushing desperate medical solutions).
It is obvious she didn’t want to take it, or was insincere in her attempt to take it. I don’t think it was the issue of the side effects, she didn’t follow thru on reading the SSM until I pushed her (LOL maybe those side effects scared her)
Lets face it, I am kiddig myself as long as i have to push and not just assist or enable things arn't going to change.
Quote: I think it gets worse than this, and at the risk of trivializing things,
You don’t want to hurt someone you love. I know these things no mater how you try to make it supportive have to hut the LD person. Sounds noble (or stupid) but I would rather ‘take the hit’ than let my W, and I know my protective side makes me take more of the pain, lets her off the hook to easy, and ultimately prevents faster actions to problems.
I'm going to comiserate here.
Doesn't it suck when you ask your spouse to change for the good of the marriage and she gets offended because she thinks that it is just for you? That's totally wrong-headed. Sure, I want sex. I guess that's selfish. Doesn't she want a better marriage? I'm asking her to change to improve both of her lives, not just my life. After all, we share our lives. If it sucks for me, it sucks for her too.
I'm done ranting for now .
If you approach your requests from a place of compassion and respect, and an attitude that you want a better marriage for the both of you, maybe she won't have such a hard time accepting your criticisms.
Back to work.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Quote: Btw, I know this is not the most politically correct thing to say, but I don't for a minute believe that all sexual problems are the result of relational problems. The relational problems can exacerbate a sticky situation (or nonsticky one, lol) but sometimes it is a matter of one person refusing to change or cooperate, for their own reasons.
That is, they'd rather see the relationship go down the tubes than stretch themselves and grow. That prospect is too scary for them.
Someone unilaterally making choices/actions that ignores the input/affect on their spouse is affecting/damaging the relationship. When I strum the drum of relational issues, it is not because I think the HD spouse has to dance even harder in the hopes that he/she might break through. Because we know that doesn't work when the LD spouse isn't on board.
(I wonder sometimes if the HD spouse should just stop all the extra efforts they make (would Michelle's 180 thing work here?) - somehow done NOT in anger & resentment, but as an attempt to point out just how abnormal and unacceptable the status quo is.)
I reference the relationship because I think the people in the relationship haven't found a way to solve their problems - or one person in the relationship refuses to address the problem. It's that old chestnut, it takes two to succeed, but only one to f*ck it all up.
I see the inability for both parties to *search* for and reach a place of agreement that they can both live and thrive in - that is a dismal relational problem. If you live by yourself you can make all the unilateral decisions you want to make. Being a part of any relationship (whether personal, business, roommate, whatever) means you have to adjust, enjoying benefits as well as making compromises. Spouses who refuse to even talk about sex, lay out mutual goals and work toward them (even if it's not as calm a process as I seem to make it sound ) - I would hazard a guess that if the relationship encountered any other major problems, the same dynamics would kick in.
I don't think it's fear - I think it's comes more from anger, pride, resentment, selfishness.
I know none of us knows how each other interacts with our spouses. Or how we what we feel/think may be exuding with the more negative emotions when we start "the talk" again, or how our spouse responds. But we can't get frustrated when it fails to make it through completely. I know NOP and I had several starts that petered out and several blowups along the way - and I remember the devastated sense that we were *never* going to get through this. I think that's part of the process. If one of you knows and can remember that you aren't going to solve a multi-year problem in a month, then you can pick yourself off, dust yourself off and assure yourself and your spouse that you really *are* moving forward and that setbacks are just part of the process. But, that doesn't mean that you have to keep putting it on the backburner - it can take a few months *even when you both are really trying to work on it.*
And if your spouse keeps dragging out what you did or didn't do x number of years ago, acknowledge it, apologize and then reiterate what *today's* goal is. Past actions aren't a trump card that can be slammed down on the table effectively shutting you up and ending the game.
Aargh. I'm rambling. I think I'll head over to Sonic and get me some tater-tots.
SoCal, I know exactly what you mean. I HATE hurting my h and I hate even more knowing that I am discouraging him from trying.
I think there is a time and a place for encouraging words and cloaked language. When you are just starting the process is not it. At this point, I think she needs your honesty and, quite honestly, she deserves it.
After all, who are you protecting here? She is fumbling around, thinking she's doing great and you are intentionally keeping her in the dark and then blindsiding her with your dissatisfaction. How is that 'taking the hit'?
I'm not coming down on you cause I do the same stupid crapola, I'm just throwing out the other side of the equation.
And as far as taking the hits, yeah, when my H started letting me have it instead of keeping it inside..oh man, did it sting. In fact, some things that he says now STILL sting. BUT, it allows me to know what's really going on inside him (instead of attaching my own spin to things), hurt for a while, and then move on and figure out what I will do next.
I hated hearing that he did not care to see me in lingerie. That it was the same as any other piece of clothing to him...but you know what? It allowed me to store this knowledge for future reference and then MOVE ON. I will no longer prance around in front of him wearing a lacy number and think that it will have an effect on him. They are (honest to goodness) PAJAMAS to him. So be it. I will wear them for myself, someday.
At this point, I can't wear it "for myself" because I am still holding on to an expectation so I don't wear it. (plus it doesn't exactly fit, lol)
Last week I had to fight the urge to ask for my usual Victorias Secret for Christmas because, truly, it is what I really want...but it won't have the desired effect I am after so I am better off refraining. (btw, I have NEVER received any slinky stuff from him as a gift, so why I would continue to ask for it is beyond me..)
Wow, this is really a tangent. What I wanted to say is that you are not doing her any favors by keeping your real thoughts inside.
And it's not too late to ask her what she meant by the "things getting better" comment.
Ahhh, I think I am getting what you are saying, MrsNOP.
That was a very wise post. I suppose I always take "relational issues" to mean that one person isn't giving X to the R and the other isn't giving Y. Sometimes I think that it is one person fcuking everything up, for inexplicable reasons.
For the record, this is NOT the case in my own situation. We were both guilty of not meeting the other's needs and ignoring our relationship--him neglecting our sexual relationship and me allowing that to continue; and me neglecting his need to share his spirituality with me and him allowing me to be so hateful about it.
But in other R's (I am thinking of my sister's marriage) her husband meets every one of her needs--she even says so--and yet she will not sleep with him or give him affection. She can't explain it and has no idea why.
Thank you for writing all that out; I totally get what you are saying now.
Now on to more important things: Junk food. Give me a thick juicy burger from some nappy looking tavern on a country road ANY time over tater tots, Sonic or not!
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) - I would hazard a guess that if the relationship encountered any other major problems, the same dynamics would kick in.
