Handing Honey a cyber cup of hot cocoa ( spiked of course).
Those "lose it" days can be such a drag. Sometimes something good comes from them, like the release of frustration and tension or highlighting for ourselves ( and forour spouses) how important an issue is for us. It's also a signal to detach from it all and do something just for yourself.
Honey, you are having a lot of anxiety over what will be based on past experiences. While the past may often be a predictor of the future, often times it's not ( yup, I do think Boston is going to win this one, sorry!). You are working on creating a new reality with your H, and although no one can say when or in what way the changes will come, there will be changes because you have changed. Take the focus off of what will be and get back to taking things day by day. We are all here to support one another and remind ourselves that we are not alone in wanting more fulfillment with our spouses. I hope you have a better day today.
HP wrote: ------------- At one point, he was telling me how much he loved me and he said "and not friendship love either." I asked what kind of love he was talking about and he replied, "I love you as my LOVER." In a very firm tone. -------------
Translation: "I am not running my physical and emotional responses regarding love for you through my religious filters anymore. I recognize that I have been inappropriately classifying my responses"
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Journey, Thank you for the cocoa. You didn't have to put Bailey's AND Kahlua in it but my goodness it was delicious that way.
You are right in that I am desperately wanting to create a new reality with him. I keep having this defeatist attitude going on of "If he's not on board with it, then we'll go right back to where we were.."
Which, you know, was still pretty good. I think that was H's point somewhere in that monster post from up above. Our actual sex life is pretty good but the...flow, if you will...seems to go one way--from me to him. I need some reciprocity in order to feel good about jumping back into the mix and establishing a sex life with him again.
He and I continue to converse via email and it is going good. Sometimes email is a godsend to people like myself who can't edit myself worth a spit in a conversation but who can delete and re-write and re-think in written word.
This weekend I was really just losing it and H mentioned that I was "discouraging" him from trying, from wanting to be better, etc. I am such an encouraging person that it really bothered me to hear that. I am, and want to continue to be, his biggest fan. I hate myself when I get in these Emasculation Moods. I was going for the jugular and succeeding. Gotta stop that!
It is hard for me to HOM these days. Not doing a very good job of it at all.
Also I was deathly afraid that the "middle of the night hand job" from last week was a fluke and something that would not be mentioned. It was. I brought it up and he shut that convo down pretty quick. It depressed me and reinforced this view I have of H's sexuality that is probably not very helpful to our situation. I have a sneaking suspicion that I am RIGHT about this view but I can't change him.
The view goes something like this (and if any LD people care to chime in, I would appreciate that):
His desire appears to me to be entirely based on his body. It has NOTHING to do with me. If his body feels horny, he wants sex. If it doesn't, he doesn't. So there is no room for me to entice him or seduce him.
I have even noticed this with my LD sister in law. On the rare times that she talks about wanting sex, it is always because of something that has to do with HER..such as a new outfit or whatnot. It is never about her husband and, to go further, most of the things she says about him are in regards to how much he disgusts her. Now, things like new outfits get me going too but for the most part my desire is focused on him.
I see bits of that in my H--his desire does not come from seeing/watching/talking to me. It is kindof like this: He feels physically horny so the next time he is around me, he is reminded of why he desires me. THEN he thinks "Oh she really does it for me" or whatever.
So here is my question for the LD posters (whom we have more or less chased off:)
Does desire EVER precede arousal for you?
Is that a hard and fast rule, or a generalization?
I know it is not politically correct (politics of the board that is, lol) to say this but I really don't care for this setup! I want the desire and passion to come from our interactions with each other and not always be dependent on the level of sperm in his balls.
I'll echo GEL: I am SOOOOO with you on this one! I could have written every word of your original post (minus the part about children/pregnancy, etc.).
Ask yourself if this would be MORE aggravating: my bf DOES spoon me (both of us naked), give me long hugs and tongue kisses during the day, but NEVER initiates actual LM. He can get an erection, and I'll even suck him for a few minutes in the kitchen or living room or something, then he will just put it away and walk away. If I escalate, he might or might not take it to the next level. If I get turned on, I would take it to the next level, but frankly sucking a guy who can take it or leave it is not a turn-on for me.
What you said here is for me the bottom line:
Quote: He needs to stretch himself and grow. He needs to stick his neck out and attempt to show his inner sexual self to me.
He tells you to appreciate what you have (I can see that you do already) and get used to this little thing being not quite right... LITTLE THING??? This is not something small and insignificant!! Sorry, must run... must run outside and S-C-R-E-A-M at the top of my lungs!!
Isn't it funny how our spouses, who have such a tremendous influence on us, can actually make us doubt and wonder if this "little" thing really is that big of a deal?
He was talking me into it and, quite frankly, I'm still not convinced that he's wrong.
I mean, we do have sex. Quite regularly (normally...it's now been over a month due to baby being born, etc) and it is always satisfying, though not creative or spontaneous. We love each other fiercely and hug and kiss frequently. We both find the other attractive. There are no physical problems with either of us that would complicate sexual matters.
HOWEVER. He keeps his sexual self bottled up inside and will not let me in. He claims that he desires me, though I seldom feel this. He waits for me to take everything to the next level so I never get to enjoy the feeling of having a man want me--I never know if he does or not and I just jump in and hope for the best.
It is a good sex life but there are holes in it and those holes leave me feeling unfulfilled and longing for something better.
In short, I want a man who can show me he wants me. In any small way; I'm not picky. I am no longer willing to live with a guy who can "take it or leave it" as you said. If he can leave it on a regular basis then there is no desire present, despite what he says. If there is no desire present, there is no romantic love present--SORRY to break that bit o' news to him.
Cemar, where are ya dude? We need to hook up and move to the mountains where we can spout off our absolutes about life and love and have no one to tell us we are wrong.
Quote: Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!
Maybe his attitude toward sex is like people who really don't care about food vs. the "foodies." Some people love to eat a really good meal... good steak with perfectly done vegetables... or a wonderful omelet... or perfect oysters and revved up red sauce... a great wine... and some people could eat shredded wheat and McDonald's day after day and never want more. They don't know what they're missing, we hedonists think. So one day we take them to a gourmet restaurant, where the food is divine, the service unobtrusive, the background music subtle... and they say, "Yeah, it was okay, but what's the fuss? I'd just as soon have a cheese sandwich at home."
Can you educate someone to epicurean tastes? Can you educate someone to epicurean SEXUAL tastes?
I hear every word you are saying here. I feel the same way more often than not. I guess, like you, at least we have a sex life now, it is just that it is too predictable. The joke here lately has been about me getting a "stunt wife" to take care of the scenes she doesn't feel up to doing In my case, there's no evidence that there are any visual or aural cues that will jump start desire either. The only thing that gets it started is touch. Odd thing, is since that is the only way I can get her started, it is also the only way she'll initiate...by going straight for the naughty bits. If you figure out a way, let us all know. I have to wonder how much of a grass is always greener syndrome we suffer from too. I'm sure there is something better out there, but what are the odds of really finding it, even if we did decide to throw in the towel and leave? Sadly, I'm coming to the conclusion that the best we can do is accept it as this is just the way it is like it or leave it (a very difficult option for those of us with kids as well as religious convictions). As I mentioned before, I'm looking to find whatever sparks of desire I can find. I think they are there sometimes, but not like they are for a HD person, and it isn't of the bodice ripping, anywhere, anytime variety either
--GGB who doesn't wear a bodice, but still wants it ripped off without having to also write the script.
