I think there is a group of HD spouses (mostly men I think) that have the same situation that I’m in. Let’s call it the Loving, willing, but not wanting spouse. Let me try to define the situation and see if I’m right about my guess that there are a lot of people in the same situation as me. I have a few threads on the board that give more details.
-Loving relationship, my relationship is loving where we both respect each other and in my case my Wife truly is my best friend. I don’t know how some of you put up with the sexual problems combined with the mental or physical abuse. I do look forward to being with my wife, and want better sex WITH her, not just better sex.
-Sexual Relationship, in our marriage I am defiantly the HD spouse where the D is desire. We do have frequency that could be better but the major problem is the quality and passion in our sexual relationship not just frequency.
Desire – Arousal – Sex, My W seldom is never aroused until we begin physical stimulation Once she gets aroused her level of desire does go up but at that point the goal is more bringing her to an O (which she usually does). I have told her that anticipation, teasing, foreplay etc. would help me with having more fulfilling sex. I still wonder if she realizes that there are different levels of pleasure for a guy, just because he ejaculates doesn’t equate to great sex.
-Disproportional Effort, in our relationship most of the effort in continuing the romance and trying to spice things up comes primarily from me. Things like fun weekends, special day events (B-days, anniversary etc.) come almost exclusively from me. Usually they have a big build up (unrealistic hopes?) that results in a let down. As I have said we kid that I have become the chick in the relationship.
-Willing spouse, My W is willing to have sex but seldom initiates. If she does it is usually more of an invitation than an action. She as read SSM, this led to some very good discussions, but little follow up. Other books, fun gifts, sexy clothes, go un used or forgotten quickly. I have made suggestions and tried to help her with ideas that would make sex for me much more fulfilling, seldom get follow up.
-Understands my frustration, I have told her how frustrated it is with she had higher desire, and how simple things could make our sex life much more fulfilling to both of us, and how this could make a good emotional relationship even better. She understands in principal but doesn’t understand how important this is to work on.
-Working on change, I have brought up the idea of working on the relationship, setting aside times or days to try new things, again willing to discuss it but little or no follow up continuing my frustration.
What would I want? To have a level of passion and desire as part of our sex life, to have this be part of our relationship, and to feel like we are both having fun while pleasuring each other. Simple eh
Quote: I have told her that anticipation, teasing, foreplay etc. would help me with having more fulfilling sex. I still wonder if she realizes that there are different levels of pleasure for a guy, just because he ejaculates doesn’t equate to great sex.
I'm sorry. I'm not really going to respond directly to your post. I was just curious about what specifically you were thinking about when you wrote the above. I've been thinking that there is still something I don't understand about the way men operate sexually ever since I read the article on male sexuality in "The Joy of Sex". I'm particularly interested in what you meant by anticipation or teasing because I know this is lacking in my relationship. I feel like the reason is my H's LD, but maybe there is some skill I am lacking.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
-Willing spouse, My W is willing to have sex but seldom initiates. If she does it is usually more of an invitation than an action. She as read SSM, this led to some very good discussions, but little follow up.
I've heard some people lament their spouses' lack of initiating. Let me suggest that you change your point of view. Suppose you spouse has subtle signs that she is in the mood. Perhaps she wears a certain nightgown. Or she just keeps talking when you would just assume go to sleep. Or she doesn't push your hand away when you start to caress her shoulder. If those things lead to sex frequently, then you could easily say that she is initiating in those cases. If that is the case, she could be initiating without your knowing it, and you're missing out.
Quote: Desire – Arousal – Sex, My W seldom is never aroused until we begin physical stimulation Once she gets aroused her level of desire does go up but at that point the goal is more bringing her to an O (which she usually does).
I am quite a fan of analogies, so here goes another one. My wife is Japanese so she often cooks Japanese food. These often feature noodles, rice or tofu, not the things I grew up eating. Sometimes the expression on my face betrays a lack of enthusiasm. But once I get started, I chow down like there's no tomorrow. I even compliment her on how good it is.
My point? I doubt I'll ever get excited about these dishes just by seeing them, and I doubt I'll ever ask for them. Maybe because I'm hardwired to salivate at greasy meats and sweet desserts. But I do love these foods, once I get going. I've even learned to shut out my initial hesitation and anticipate the imminent pleasure. If your W loves the sex with you once she gets over her, for want of a better term, inertia, then count your blessings, brother!
To me the bottom line is that you and your W committed to be initmate with each other only. She needs to satisfy your sexual needs if she is to have a reasonable expectation that you will remain faithful to her. This is her responsibility. How she does this, however, is largely up to her.
Paul, who never realized all the things you can do with tofu
A really rewarding sexual encounter for me begins well before the sex does. My standard disclaimer is that I don’t claim to represent all men. Once I was out of town, Mrs. HDsocal (acting in a way I wish she would do again) started a few days before I was coming home, and started sending me cryptic but sexy messages, things like ‘im picking which stockings to wear when you come home’ , and ‘what should I do with a silk scarf…’, the visual image, and anticipation that this started became my focus for the next few days, really, sitting in a boring work meeting ad thinking of something else (thinking of her!!), when I brought it up on the phone, she kept playing the game, teasing and being suggestive.
I don’t know if she was aroused or full of desire or was just playing with me, but either way, by the time I got home I wanted to jump her, I think I had a hard on before my flight landed and had fidget to get comfortable on the drive home from the airport. She smiled when I saw her and knew that she wanted to ML. She was dressed in something sexy (always a turn on for me). This is one of the few times that I think she was aroused when I got home. We had a few drinks and… well……..
The sex that night was the best we ever had IMO, from a pleasure standpoint, emotional, the whole package. I have asked her what prompted it and she never did tell me or for that matter never did any thing quite like this again.
The physical enjoyment was better than any other time we ML. Could I have had sex withoutthe whole package that night, sure, but it wouldn't be anything like it was that night. Sex without any desire for me isn't that much more rewarding than masturbation.
I need to explain a little beter, she does initiate but from a sexual standpoint it is little more than an invitation, there isn't much desire or lead in to it, willing but without desire .
In your analogy she always cooks... In my sitch I always cook, but want her to cook sometimes too!
Socal, How do you know she is not desiring you when she makes the invitations?
Maybe that is her way of showing it; some women just don't feel comfortable showing outright desire so they make it out to be that they are doing you a favor..or 'allowing' you access to them, when really they are just wanting their husbands at that moment.
What if you operated from the premise that THIS is what's going on, instead of her doing you a favor?
Or is it her behavior once things have started that gives you the impression that you are being serviced rather than desired?
I think the other posters have good points - it sounds to me from what you say that your W does like sex and want you, but perhaps the way she communicates it is more subtle. The gap between "willing" and "wanting' can be just a few minutes. Unless her "willing" has an undertone of resentfully servicing you - but it doesn't sound like that from your post.
Maybe you can work on encouraging her to be more "aggressive" in the style that you want, but at the same time perhaps you can work on "seeing" the times that she is initiating, in her own way.
Sexual expression is very personal, so please try your best to stay away from characterizing your way as the "right" way and her way as "wrong". My STBXH complained that I was not aggressive and did not initiate enough, but when I made attempts, he would be angry if I didn't do it "right". He would be upset if I said "lets ML tonight" instead of "f***". Your wife is not a wind-up doll who you can program to perfectly act out all your fantasies according to script. If you are always letting her know that you are disappointed in her sexually, and aren't supportive of the attempts that she does make, even if they aren't perfect, I can guarantee she will not become more "wanting" and will be less "willing". That's what happened to me.
But I imagine you love her for the things that make her unique - which should include her sexual personality. Maybe she just needs to learn to express that side of herself a little clearer, and you need to learn to see it clearer. Good luck.
Quote: I've been thinking that there is still something I don't understand about the way men operate sexually ever since I read the article on male sexuality in "The Joy of Sex". I'm particularly interested in what you meant by anticipation or teasing because I know this is lacking in my relationship. I feel like the reason is my H's LD, but maybe there is some skill I am lacking.
GM,
Men expect to get aroused with very little effort. This is the classical model, but it is based on how young adult men function. A lot of men need more than that when they get older. When that happens, they (and their spouses) mistakenly think their is something wrong with them. Or in your H's case, he has occasionally turned it on you.
FWIW, I can't see that you are doing anything wrong. I frequently get aroused reading your posts, which leads me to sit at my desk a little longer when I am at work . Stop that . But physiologically, even though I am in my forties, I still get aroused with little effort. But since your H doesn't appear to fit the classical model, maybe that leads him to have difficulty understanding his own sexuality.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Quote: I frequently get aroused reading your posts, which leads me to sit at my desk a little longer when I am at work. Stop that.
LOL. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this "problem." But, I don't agree...please don't stop the steamy postings, Mojo. Just like my Paula Cole recommendation got you going, you return the favor by getting me jazzed up with your wonderful posts!
Hairdog - who particularly liked the "how about a BJ" story as your H was getting ready to leave.
Ok, lets start with ‘maybe it is me’, for that matter I know that it isn’t ‘her fault’ or ‘my fault’ that we have a problem. In her mind, the problem is that I am unhappy, not a problem with our sex life.
To clarify, and answer some questions,
Quote: How do you know she is not desiring you when she makes the invitations?.. Or is it her behavior once things have started that gives you the impression that you are being serviced rather than desired?
That is a good way to describe it. She is willing, and I don’t want it to sound like she is annoyed that she has to put out. Once we do get started, I don’t feel the passion or desire in the sex, as I have told you, she does have an O and tells me that she does enjoy that, but what I am still looking for is more of a partner in sex. Someone commented on one of my post that she is a Lazy Lover, I think that describes it to some extent.
When I hear the posts from the HDW about how they seduce their partners, I am really jealous, to think of the things that these women to in the hopes of raising the desire of their partners is wonderful for me to fantasize about. Really, im not the only one to feel that way judging from the responses from the frustrated horny masses (you know who you are…). Many of the threads lately are from HD partners realizing that things aren’t going to change; I’m not ready to resign myself to that. To repeat another posting, I want a HDW!.
Quote: If you are always letting her know that you are disappointed in her sexually, and aren't supportive of the attempts that she does make, even if they aren't perfect, I can guarantee she will not become more "wanting" and will be less "willing".
I do try to support her, and have told her what effect she can have on me. The comment about me wanting her to be a wind up doll is I guess a little bit true, some of the issues of motive I guess come out, what is more important her actions or feelings. This can get tough for a HD spouse. At this point actions are probably more important to me, gotta say I’m a little sad to hear myself say that.
But I imagine you love her for the things that make her unique - which should include her sexual personality. Maybe she just needs to learn to express that side of herself a little clearer, and you need to learn to see it clearer.
When we first started dating she hadn’t had much sexual experience. There is another thread about givers and takers, I do agree with the thoughts discussed on it another aspect is the teachers and student aspect. In our relationship, certainly in the sexual side of it I do come of as the teacher. I’m wondering is the problem more with the teacher or isn’t the student willing to learn more…
. Stop that 
. But physiologically, even though I am in my forties, I still get aroused with little effort. But since your H doesn't appear to fit the classical model, maybe that leads him to have difficulty understanding his own sexuality.