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LivN....

I can certainty understand your being tired right now.
The luncheon alone would have exhausted me.
Another clue was your comment on just "getting things done around the house like laundry" clues me in that you are burning a little too brightly right at the moment.

Sounds very much like you need to take some time to recover and recharge.

It is very important that you take ((((REALLY)))) good care of yourself.
Like they say you in DB/DR, are preparing for a long haul...you MUST pace yourself if you want to acheive your goals and reserve your strength...Your're gonna need it!

PLEASE, PLEASE.....relax and do something to pamper your self whatever that may be.

One of the best things about DBing is that I learned was to really listen to my body and spirit and take DAYS!!! yes, days to recouperate if I felt the need. (I tend to be a bit reclusive anyways, Cancer-crab that I am) and really need a bit of solitude to gather my thoughts and FEELINGS and take stock of what I think and how I feel.

This is most important because you avoid confusion, and are clear on your goals.

Speaking of which it would seem like an excellent time to write some of those down!

Now I heard you mention "spending xmas together" might be a goal........

IMHO that is a HUGE goal, frought with a great deal of emotions....Maybe for now you could simplify that goal a bit??...Like approach him about doing some PLANNING for xmas....start small....with "a beginner's mind"......

What sort of other holiday plans could you make that might lead UP TO but not involve directly.........Christmas?

I am telling you this for many reasons.

It seemed to me that what you have been observing about your H is his RELIEF at not having to check in, make connections, make plans, etc. Right??

There can be an awful lot of pressure around a bug holiday like Xmas. Like traditions, rituals and expectations....There's that nasty word again ....expectations.....yours, his, kids, relatives,co-workers.... The last thing you want to do is be a source of stress for him!!

You will have to take care that your expectations are LOW....VERY LOW!!! Keep the pressure OFF and don't start loading up for the holidays...( let that be the nasty job of any OW there might be!! she can be the nagging unhappy complainer!!)

You be the source of FUN !!!!!!!!!

If he wants to join in ....great!!

If not....too bad for HIM on missing such a fun time!!( make sure he knows it!!)

Remember FUN??

You can have fun without him you know!! And seeing you happy will undoubtledly make him VERY curious...
Which if I am not mistaken, is basically what your luncheon is all about...he was CURIOUS!!!

Curious to see any changes...curious to see where your head was at....curious to see what you up to( notice he revealed VERY little about himself at that lunch!)

So go ahead....be a bit mysterious!! Keep him guessing a little.....He doesn't have to know EVERYTHING about you right now. Just that you are a warm, funny, clever and interesting Gal!! Who has a great new perfume!!, a talent for listening......and can handle herself in a very classy way when out in public with her (alien)H!!!!!

If I had been you at that lunch.....

I would have been keenly aware that he actually had VERY little to say about himself ....maybe that's because there really isn't any thing NEW about him. How sad for him...hehehe...how very boring!!

I think you even mentioned how HE HASN"T REALLY CHANGED??

He still is into "toys"....very "extrocentric" ( means not very deep, uses outside items to draw attention to himself)

And was so self concious that he couldn't even bring himself to ask about YOU!!!!
HUH???? What's up with that!!

There are quite a few clues that he is interested in you, for one: someone who isn't interested would not have even wanted to have lunch with you. He would have found something ELSE to do.......
So look back over that interaction and see what other clues you have...

I'm betting you are keeping him guessing by not asking too much about him!!He probably wonders why you are not dying of curiosity..hahaha
Did he think this lunch was all about revealing himself to YOU?? Well, I hope youi nade that clear by NOT prying into what all he's been doing, and looking desperate for him to share...Phooey on that!! Just act like you are interested and it's nice that he is sharing,( like I said you are a good listener) but you're not overly impressed with his activities, and you have a life too!
No, my guess is he wanted to see what was up with YOU!

BTW...don't forget to tell him how much you enjoyed lunch!!
Quick and light...something like "Maybe we could do that again sometime, when I'm free, I'll catch you up on what I'VE been doing.""

get the idea??

Okay, now go take care of your self!!

I mean it!! Seriously, a girl's gotta take care of herself, like the queen that she is, right!

Hugs, Trish

Wow, Trish,

Thanks for your lengthy post full of thoughts.

As this weekend I will be on my own - most of my friends are going away - I will spend some time relaxing and sleeping in late, as well as catching up on the many chores I have piling up around me. Perhaps I should come up with a little something that counts as pampering too?

About Christmas -

Well, I think everything hinges on whether OW 2 is still in the picture or not. I don't know if she is now, and I don't know if she will be then. If she is not, then it is my goal to spend Christmas day with H and D together.

Last Christmas I had started DBing, but our plan for D and I to go to my family in another country had been arranged before I started DBing. We kept in touch by email over the time we were away, and spent New Year together, we were very close for a couple of days. Soon after he flew to other country to start up with OW 2.

I will not start pursuing H about Christmas this early, but an intermediate goal might be to make our encounters so pleasant that H wants to meet up once or twice a month at least, and keep in touch by email and phone too. All LIGHT, FUN stuff.

I want to get my local personal project wrapped up, input wise, by the end of November, and ready to try and sell by the end of the year. I will be using a piece of equipment that H got after the split, he has offered to let me use it, so that is positive. I think both of us being successful in our personal work, with encouragement from each other, will help our R no end.

I need to have my website up and running by the end of the year too. This will help me get some work too. My ideal would be to make enough from my professional work so that I don't have to find part time tedious work locally, that I am not interested in.

I just realised yesterday that my mother's passing has relieved me somewhat of a burden - feeling responsible for her from a distance, in many ways - practical, mental, emotional etc. She was not an easy person, but we were close enough. I now have less physcial responsibility to bear, for example I will not have to travel over to other country as often as I was doing. My sis can come visit me here, which my mother wasn't able to do the past two years.

My mother's dependence on me actually put a strain on our marriage, and there was a time when I felt like I was in an impossible situation stuck between the conflicting demands of my H and my mother. That WAS a factor in our split, I am sure of it. H needed to escape the excess of responsibility, although outwardly he was behind me with our original plans for my mother to come stay with us etc.

Another thing I was mulling over. Before I married H, I never had trouble getting work to pay my bills, I ALWAYS lived within means, even if they weren't much. Since coming over to live in this country, where the employment situation for expats is very restricted, and my wanting to be a full time mother to D in her ealy years, there has been this notion with H, that has seeped into my thinking, that in some way I am NOT WORKING, I'm USELESS or something. Or that I DON'T WANT TO WORK. And that is NOT TRUE!

I MUST get my personal work front sorted out, not only to make some money but to regain my self esteem.

So here are my goals -

1) H wants to spend time with me and 'us' (me and D) at least once or twice a month, or more.

2) We spend Christmas together - hopefully a natural consequence of spending fun time together in the run up to Christmas.

3) Personal work project completed and ready to hawk around by the end of the year.

4) Basic website up and running by the end of the year.

5) Consolidate my teaching hours into something worthwhile. Want to be able to renegotiate terms with H at the end of the year so he pays a little less. Puts less pressure on him.

And things to remember -

Concentrate on myself!
Ask if any action will get me closer to my goal.
Look for the silver lining in EVERY situation
Remember to *be* happy, as I can't FIND it! (It isn't hiding under a rock somewhere!! )

Livnlearn

Good Morning LnL,

I like your goals!

Makes me feel motivated this morning that I need to set some goals for getting things accomplished.

Thanks for the encouragement, it has been a rough week. But I think maybe I see a light.

LNL -
Sounds good!
Some thoughts for you:

For this weekend's cleaning - if you haven't visited www.flylady.com already, check it out - she's a big help to those of use to whom cleaning doesn't come naturally.

For finances - I don't know how difficult it is for you to get American books where you are, but there's a series by Amy Dacyczyn called the Tightwad gazette (three volumes, later published in one volume). It's a collection of her newsletters about a frugal lifestyle. I like it less for the tips and more for the essays - she has some great takes on saving money and doing more with less - just might help. I agree that financial independence will put you on a more stable footing as regards your H.

Ellie

Question -

Should I find out for sure whether OW 2 is still physically around H these days? Will it help me to know one way or the other? Should I still not initiate any moves even if OW 2 is not there? I know that doing so if she IS there would not work.

I could find out through common friends (not close friends though). Don't like asking, but would if it would help me. I won't ask D directly though. I feel I would be drawing her into things by that.

What do you think?

Livnlearn

Well,

I have the answer to my question, unexpectedly. I rang H to talk about when D is going to be picked up, and OW 2 picked up his phone. I was so wrong footed, I just put the phone down.

Can't seem to act with an OW as if eveything is just fine.

Livnlearn

Just half an hour later....

D and I are sitting at the dining table, and she says, completely off her own bat, "OW, you know, I don't like her." Then I look at her questioningly, and she continues "When I am up there and I'm bored, I play with her because there's nothing else to do. Daddy says she isn't going to be there this weekend, because soon she is going away and isn't going to come back again."





Hey, I don't have time to work out that little jig thingy with the &&&&&&&&& that someone on this board used to do, because my cooking students are due shortly!

Livnlearn

Somebody get this girl a gopher dance!

Ellie

The phone rang a little later and H spoke to D. I heard D asking if OW 2 was going to be there this weekend, don't know what the reply was.

I guess I will just have to be patient and see what H lets me in on. I will wait to be contacted, and when and if he does get in touch, I will DB like mad. Just visited the lightyourfire website, and came away with the idea that it is when your H feels good in your company (affirmation and validation) that H likes and loves you enough to hang around, AND do things for you in return! Got to work on that. It is not only the case that we love the other person, but that we love being in that person's company because they make us FEEL GOOD about ourselves! I can buy that.

I THOUGHT I was getting mixed signals from the lunch thingy. He was so keen to have lunch, there were still hints that OW 2 was around, yet hints that H was somehow on his own more....

Livnlearn

Hello all

D has been up with H all weekend, and I had two days of doing precious little - my way of pampering myself! I felt guilty at times, but then thought, if I can't just do nothing once in a blue moon without geeling GUILT, what's life for? So I stayed in my pyjamas till the afternnon one day, slept in all morning (got to get rid of the dark rings under my eyes...), ate what I wanted when I wanted, and generally was a slob!

My friend came over last night and stayed the night. We just had dinner together and chatted away, went to bed late, got up and had breakfast, went for a walk in the park and then she left.

Then, I got a phone call from H. He told me what time to expect D back down again this evening. Then said, could he come stay the night too, as he had some things to do in town tomorrow? I said OK.

Then he said, one more thing, D has lost her pyjamas! (??? ???)

He tells me, "We went over to OW 2's place for a Halloween party last evening. OW 2 went completely insane at one point, so we just left. We tried to find D's pyjamas, but couldn't, it seems OW had already packed them! This is the last insanity that I am going to experience with OW..."

What the...................????




I don't know if H wants to spill the beans about things this evening, but I am not fool enough to think that with two mad OW packed off that equals H falling into my arms again. I do know one thing, these two women were the most dangerous to our M, as he had already cultivated strong feelings for them well before the bomb, and both were needy, having both left their husbands just prior to all this. I know my H is not the casual dating type.

This weekend I have been re-reading the Five Love Languages book and taking a lot in.

I have been going over all the criticisms that H made of me at bomb time to see what I can learn from them.

For instance, I think that in addition to my not doing much paid work (so that he felt the full burden of bringing home the bacon) what REALLY got to H is that I didn't VALIDATE his contribution (earnings) enough or at all.

We also stopped validating each other about our personal work - preferring instead to use slights and criticisms. The fact is that we are BOTH talented and intellegent individuals!

I can see that my main task over the coming weeks and months is to offer validation and affirmation to H in (subtle ) bucketfuls, so that he begins to feel good about himself in my company.

More later!

Livnlearn