Quote: First - clarify your goals for this encounter
There are two parts to this encounter. One is to have a pleasant time at the party, have a good PMA and show H my best side.
The second part, after the party, is to discuss some money issues. I will look at the positive side of things, validate H's concerns and let him know what I am doing from my side. Let him know that I wish to work things out fairly between us.
Quote: As for the money issue - I think I'vealready asked but forgotten theanswer - is he currently paying more or less than the courts would make him pay in a divorce? If the lesser amount is less than the courts would dictate, then it might be worthwhile to point that out to him.
I believe the courts would expect H to "support his family". Some friends have suggested I just let H pay as much as I want him to, don't stretch myself on the job front, he decided to leave, let him pay, etc etc etc. Well, I have not taken that attitude, but tried my best. I am not taking H to the cleaners, nor "making him pay for his crime". But obviously if he has taken the decision to leave, then there are negative consequences all round, financially.
Quote: Then - have the best PMA you can muster. Slip a card into your pocket with DBing notes that you can peek at whenever you need reminding - "validate, 180s, PMA, will this get you closer to your goal?, "etc. Then look sexy as heck and let him see your thong peeking out
Will do all of this, apart from the thong! I have lost 4 kilos in the past three weeks, since returning from holiday. I am rather enjoying the discipline, for a change, of not eating too much, and doing my morning toning and stretching exercises. Now I have to also concentrate on the mental exercises - keeping positive, validating, not reacting, etc etc.
Will let you know how it goes!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
The party went off OK, with the usual little crises that happen when you get 13 girls (and one boy!) into an apartment together.
H was there sort of in the background, going out on to the balcony quite a lot. Went down to the local cafe for 15 mins in the middle around the time of the cake cutting - to get a coffee, make a phone call? He certainly tucked in to the party food. I was aware of him looking at me a couple of times, I mean, studying me.
I managed to stay even in my mood, tried to be bright and happy, though I probably wasn't quite at my best. Tried to look good too.
After it was over, H did sweep the floor, and then put D to bed and read her a story.
I handed H an envelope which had arrived a couple of days ago by registered mail. It was a tax demand. A further demand on top of what he thought had been sorted out already. H hit the roof. He started ranting and even punched his fist into a table, luckily it was strong enough to resist getting dented. H used to punch things in the (old) house in the past, and a number of doors and other items had little dents bearing testimony to his rages. We live in a country of high taxes and a corrupt government, so people are fleeced all the time. I just let him rant, didn't say a thing. I felt for him.
Anyway, after he calmed down, we sat on the sofa, and H proceeded to tell me all about his project(s). I just listened and asked a few questions to clarify things he was saying.
As I sat there watching him speak, I felt such love for this man, and an ache that he had shut me out of his life. I so much want to be there for him and behind him, and be his cheerleader. Why wasn't I more of that before? The usual vicious cycle of feeling slighted, and the counter attack, and then on and on.
I would say that H's love language is definitely affirmation. Why else would he want to speak to me of his projects and dreams? Why send me the synopsis of his project? He wants my approval, I believe. He very much wants to measure up to his father. His father was a very big achiever - went from humble beginnings to being the top of a multinational company. And his father had no time for H, threw him out of the house when he was 16, disparaged him etc.
I have to work on ways to affirm H's ambitions and talents and successes. But he would smell a rat if I were too cack handed in my approach. I believe H does have real talent, but sometimes he is his own worst enemy. And what I might have thought was "constructive criticism" in the past, I think H simply took as "criticsim". I have learnt to zip my lips a little more, though I ain't prefect. Last night I couldn't help offering a couple of suggestions to him, which may have come over as criticism or nannying, I don't know. I will have to practice the gentle art of listening!
This was the first time in many months that I have spent a few hours with H, and been able to talk. H did 90% of the talking last night. And 95% of it was about him. We didn't talk about me at all!
The other theme of the evening was money, and H's lack of it. We didn't touch once upon the subject of his payments to me, or how much I was making etc.
As soon as he saw the tax demand, he groaned that that took care of his idea to buy a piece of equipment then, and that's when the rant started. He planned the purchase in order to do work on his project. Now it would be swallowed up by a tax bill.
H had bought a new hat, and also showed me a snazzy pen he bought. Then said he had bought a new pair of trousers after a very long time, all his clothes were shabby from continuous wear. My H is so contradictory - is out of clothes, food, etc but spends on fancy hats and pens?
Then said he couldn't afford to move to city, would move to another small town, at least less isolated than where he is now. Would still cost much less than city.
All in all, I started to feel like a heel for living in my nice house. The house is nice, it hasn't finished being decorated or anything, and I live simply enough in it, but none the less, it is nice, compared to his. And I also have nightmares about money. And whether enough is going to come in in any month. The bitter irony in all of this is that if we were living together and pooling our resouces, we would be fine.
I wondered if the whole evening was played out to make me feel bad, but I know my husband is not calculating and he is not a schemer and he is not spiteful. I will give him all that. A lot of his frustration in life is that he is in fact so naive in certain ways, that he gets taken for a ride, and then he rants and raves about it.
Have to go for a lesson, will continue later!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
So, moneywise he is struggling to make the payments to me AND live well on what is left. I am thinking about what to do about this. I want to write to him, asking him for a further grace period in which to get my act together, hopefully one of my two personal projects will bear some fruit and bring in some money, or I will get a load more students. I don't want my H to be beggared by all this.
Two other things - he has stopped wearing his wedding ring.
And when he was dealing with D, when she was misbehaving and he was telling her off, he said and did the same things as I do with her. And she responded in similar fashion as she does with me. So much for my feeling that somehow as the one who has to dicipline D most, I come off as the nag and scold, BAD MUMMY, while H just comes over to her as NICE DADDY. We are both human, and we both love our D.
It seems to me I need to re-read DB and DR and devise a plan of action, with goals. I need to practise some emotional discipline. Now that I am seeing the first signs of reward in my diet and exercise routine, it makes me thirst for results in other areas.
I am going to work on H's need for affirmation, by taking an interest in his work and encouraging him all I can.
I am going to acknowledge to H that his making the payments to me means he has little to live on himself, and tell him how I plan to earn more to relieve the strain on him.
I think money problems and lack of affirmation from me are what drove H away from our marriage.
I think I have finally understood in my heart, rather than just intellectually, that changes have to come from me, first and foremost, if there is any chance of repairing our relationship.
I have also realised that I do love my H very much, faults and all. I am not just hanging in there due to personal loss, or loss of face, but I really think I can give him something. I want to be loved by him again. I still think we can make a good team.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Did an exchange lessons with someone, I teach him English and he teaches me the local language - really we just converse and point out problems and do a little practice. Anyway, today I was talking about myself and about things I have done and know about, and it struck me that I have done quite a lot, I am NOT just a waste of space, and never have been! H's speeches to me at bomb time drove my self-esteem right into the ground.
Then I taught a group of young kids, boys, and I really don't enjoy it. They are tired after a full day at school and DON'T really want to be learning English, so I have discpline problems at times. It really isn't my cup of tea, and I get stressed by the thought of the lesson coming up all week. How I would love to drop it! But I need the money. If I get enough adult students, I will drop the kids eventually. On the other hand, last year I told myself to look on things like that as an opportunity to learn, rather than as a problem to run away from. Can I learn something about the nature of 'teaching'? About how to relate to young boys?
Got a nice group of cooking students together starting tomorrow.
Later this evening I got a scare when my Mum was taken to hospital with chest pains. She is in her mid eighties. But it seems it is not life threatening.
The stress, and feeling emotional all this week meant that when I came across a photo story about the massacre in Beslan in a magazine while waiting at the doctor's, I burst into tears. I really had to get a grip. But seeing parents taking a last look at rows of corpses that were their children once, was too horrible to bear. My burdens are light compared to that.
When I got home, I spoke to H on the phone about sending D up to the hills tomorrow for her visit. H thanked me for his time here, said he enjoyed last evening .......(wooooaaaah!) People really enjoy talking to a good listener, huh?
I think I will send some emails to H over the next few days, with some validating thoughts.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: Can I learn something about the nature of 'teaching'? About how to relate to young boys?
Some thoughts: - boys need to move and wiggle. So any attempts to make them sit still, especially at that time of day, are useless. Can you change your teaching style so it is more interactive, and requires them to move around the room? Interactive games, role playing, searching for and naming objects? (Not sure what level they are at). Humor is always good. - also - trying to deal with boys when they are hungry is useless - should you be baking up some of your yummy snacks for them?
Good job on listening to H - finally, something that works!
There have been several things in your posts of late that remind me of myself.
Quote: Anyway, today I was talking about myself and about things I have done and know about, and it struck me that I have done quite a lot, I am NOT just a waste of space, and never have been! H's speeches to me at bomb time drove my self-esteem right into the ground.
I know just how you feel. Sometimes I have to remind myself that everyone but H thinks that I am wonderful. I am smart; I graduated with very high marks from a very prestigious university. I am pretty, and no I cannot compete with the 26 year old OW, but I don't care to either. Like I tell H she isn't 1/2 the woman that I am. But there is nothing like your H choosing another woman over you to give your self esteem a thorough thrashing.
You my friend seem to be doing a wonderful job being a good listener. It was a big change for me to just validate H's thinking, finally realizing that I didn't have to agrree with what he said, just validate it. My C calls that "hearing H's heart."
I am glad that you got to have that long convo. Keep up the good work. One day at a time, one tiny baby step...
Yesterday D was to be picked up by H's landlord for a lift up to her Dad's place in the hills. She missed her dance lesson because of the time she was supposed to be ready. When they arrived, it was after her dance class would have finished, so I talked to the landlord and we agreed that they could come direcly to the venue of the class and pick her up from there in future. We exchanged telephone numbers. I don't know why my H was unable to ask them directly himself.
Then I went about preparing for my cooking class. The irony of this is that the group contains the very person who my H said at bomb time was an example of someone who felt uncomfortable in my presence as I "didn't speak a word of the local language". This person is from another country far away, doesn't speak English and only speaks the local language here, plus of course his own. He may well not have felt he could talk to me. But now he is paying me to come to my house and learn cooking! Hmmmmmmm
I was in a fine mood as I prepared for the lesson. About half an hour before they were due to arrive, the phone rings, and I merrily picked it up. H says, I have some news for you. I said, Oh? He said, OW 2 has walked out on me because she won't accept the restrictions you are putting on her, when D is around.
Well, I found out from the lawyers ages ago that I cannot stop H seeing whoever he wants to even with D there, the only two things I have said are, please do not all three of you sleep in the same bed (D says there is another bed) and H agreed, and secondly, if you want to borrow my tent for camping, for D to have fun, I don't want OW also in it.
Then H says, I don't know what you think about this, and I don't even know myself, but it was YOUR restrictions that has made her do this. Then he put the phone down, click.
Guess what, once again I had to calm myself right before a lesson. I had forgotten that I wasn't going to pick up the phone right before a lesson or during it.
The lesson went fine. I went to bed, slept for longer than I have done in weeks, but had a terrible nightmare saga about H and OW 2 and D. It went on and on, like torture.
I woke up, and was invited to go to the swimming pool with friends, and to lunch, so I accepted, and didn't check my email. Had a lovely day. Came home, did some chores, and then checked my email. Sure enough, there was a long one from H. In rant mode. The gist is as follows.
Quote: Says he has been doing all the backing down since the separation.
His only aim has been to protect D, and I have been taking advantage of it.
He didn't like the fact that I refused to take D into the centre to meet him, both ways (and have lunch with him?) the day after I came back from the summer vacation. (I had offered to take her in one way, although the agreement states he needs to pick her up and drop her back to the house. I was waiting for a DHL parcel delivery.)
You will not dictate how I spend time with D. If OW 2 comes here again, though unlikely, she will sleep in the only bed there is, whether D is there or not. (PS - OW lives a few kms away.) I (Livnlearn) have the luxury of a big flat.
If I don't give him a deadline about when he can pay less, he will simply close his account and pay me what he thinks is right, that I agreed (we both have to agree it, according to my circumstances, otherwise present agreement holds.)
He will probably be getting another place in a nearby small town, and he will be taking some furniture, not the ancient "sh*t" that we have stored in the garage (from old house. Actually, he must be referirng to our old kitchen which is actually very nice, only it has a couple of dents in it, from one of his rages!)
I (Livnlearn) may be delighted at having driven a wedge between OW 2 and H, but H is not.
Oh boy, I drove a wedge between them? I think I have heard it all! Nothing about how she might have "driven a wedge" between H and I??????
I have stayed calm right now, I can tell H is explosive. I will be screening calls. Please write in with any suggestions about how to handle this.
How do I validate in this situation?
By the way, I sent up a useful book with D to give H (before all this happened, for H's project) and sent him a cheery note by email too. I was on a mission to show some love.
What now?
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
If the [censored] is hitting the fan I see it as hitting the fan in two places, between you and H and between H and OW#2.
I will say here in this forum that whatever is going on between H and OW is not your fault. Ity sounds like another case of him trying to blame you for things that are his fault and not yours. And if H and OW are having a convo about their R you can be darn sure that your "restrictions" are not the only thing that have been discussed between them. H is prob choosing the one thing that she said about you and choosing to make that the whole focus.
It is good to stay calm.
As I see validating it requires simply repeating back what he has said verbatim, saying "did I get that right?" And after he replies saying "is there anything else?"
Don't get sucked up into his explosion.
Sometimes I see dbing as like a game of sorts. We have to play by the dbing rules even when we feel like telling our H's where they can go...
H is def not thinking rationally and may not be for quite some time so you cannot discuss anything rationally with an irrational person.
Pam
ps. What your H said about your personality reminds me of something that my H said about me post bomb...that people found me to be cold and difficult to get to know. Where do they get off with this crap? H's friends don't get me because I don't subscribe to their routine of getting drunk off my ass at social events, flirting with other people's spouses and talking about inappropriate subjects.
Quote: Some thoughts: - boys need to move and wiggle. So any attempts to make them sit still, especially at that time of day, are useless. Can you change your teaching style so it is more interactive, and requires them to move around the room? Interactive games, role playing, searching for and naming objects? (Not sure what level they are at). Humor is always good.
Yes, I do always try to insert some sort of game into the proceedings, but they are so hyper and unruly that sometimes they never get to the stage of learning anythings in order to play the game! Kids are very indulged in this country and are quite wild, don't behave with any restraint even in the homes of others. I come from a culture that expects great respect for other people and their homes...
- also - trying to deal with boys when they are hungry is useless - should you be baking up some of your yummy snacks for them?
Last year I used to give them a drink and biscuits, but they stretcehd out this part of the lesson as far as they could, dropped pieces all over the floor, stood on them, threw bits at each other... you get the picture.
I have decided, I think, to be honest with their parents and tell them that their boys would rather be playing after school and to take them to some physical activity instead. I could use my time more productively with adult students.
Also right now I am engaged, part time, in three different activities/professions - my personal freelance work, teaching English and cooking. All of these I do well and get good feedback from. I don't have a 'gift' with naughty boys, so I think I will lessen the stress in my life by loads and give up that one lesson. I will continue with the girls, as they seem more amenable to learning some English!
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Quote: I will say here in this forum that whatever is going on between H and OW is not your fault. Ity sounds like another case of him trying to blame you for things that are his fault and not yours. And if H and OW are having a convo about their R you can be darn sure that your "restrictions" are not the only thing that have been discussed between them. H is prob choosing the one thing that she said about you and choosing to make that the whole focus.
I have analysed this tendancy we all have, to a greater or lesser extent, to blame someone or something for our 'misfortunes'. I often catch myself trying to find something/someone to blame for my own shortcomings. I am learning to take responsibility for my choices, and much of life is about choices - even down to how one chooses to 'feel' or react to things.
I am screening calls, and H called this morning and left a message about D's return being later than planned. He sounded OK. Also got an email about it. He mentions spending the night in the tent, and says he had forgotten what a good tent it is. Neutral email, no ranting.
I am thinking about how to respond to his earlier email. I think H needs some reasurance on the financial front. I will try to validate his feelings when I can, and I will simply ignore the more outrageous stuff. Is that a good approach?
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
People really enjoy talking to a good listener, huh?
