Julie, you should be ashamed of yourself for your obvious attempts of subliminal messaging:
Quote: I think the masturbation issue is a loaded one. You would do best to leave it well alone and approach the issue from the angle of what you want. I know it is hard because it makes you feel rejected, and rightly so.
Quote: I feel for you HH but I recommend that you try to put these thoughts aside, give him the benefit of the doubt and continue to work on the R and having your needs met.
Thanks Nel...I appreciate it. I do need these seemingly constantly reminders to focus on ME and not HIM.
Quote: I think the masturbation issue is a loaded one. You would do best to leave it well alone and approach the issue from the angle of what you want.
You are totally right, Julie. Thanks. (And I don't mind you "hijacking" the thread!)
I think the mbation issue needs a bit more explaining. It's not really about mbation, it's about porn. I'm starting to think my H is not LD, he's HD - just for porn, not real intimacy.
When we first met, H was in his late 30's, never married, hadn't even been in an R for a few years. When we started dating, he didn't want to get physically intimate for a few months. When we did finally "go there" I could see he was a little shy. He lived 100 miles away so we mostly saw each other on weekends. In between he would send me racy e-mails about his sexual intentions, but once I got to his house he would avoid sex until the morning I was going home. (Uh oh, can you say warning signs?)
Fast forward. Hopelessly in love with the person he was/is, I moved in with him. Before I moved, we talked about sex and our wants/needs. He asked how often I would like to have sex and I said I thought a few times a week would be about right. He said he thought that sounded like fun. I moved in. He started avoiding sex. It was then I noticed he had a pretty major porn habit. Videos, internet, magazines. (Warning sign #2? Is this the part where the giant "IDIOT" arrow starts pointing at ME?)
He was mbating to porn several times a week. Sex between us became less frequent. I confronted him about the porn and he said it was just a male outlet and had nothing to do with our relationship. At this point I started to change (I didn't realize it then, of course). I started to think something was wrong with me. I didn't understand how he could lust after these cute, scantilly clad, "perfect" sexual specimens online and then look at me and not judge. To me, the proof was in the pudding as our sexual frequency was diminishing even more. About this time we got engaged. He said once we got married he saw us having sex more because it was his strict religious upbringing that was making him guilty about premarital sex.
3 months before our wedding he said he wanted to stop having sex entirely to make our wedding night special. When we got to the hotel he was too tired (well, so was I). We consummated the next morning - it was GREAT sex. I still fantasize about it! Great way to start the marriage. He avoided sex the rest of the honeymoon. We were gone 10 days and ML three times.
When we got home (duh, of course) everything was like it had been - no sex and lots of him mbating to porn. I suggested counseling, which he agreed to. The first counselor was a female and blamed him for our sex problems and he wouldn't even talk to her or go back after the second session. The second counselor was male and the only true "sex therapist" in our small town. He blamed me. Said I was making too big a deal of porn, that it's just an outlet for men. Suggested we buy "erotic massage" video which I watched once and H never watched. (I recently gave that video to Goodwill - wonder who ended up with it?!)
A year after our marriage we went on a week-long cruise. I was still madly in love with H but sexually at the end of my rope. (Even went online looking for an EA but realized I couldn't do it without the emotional attachment and I didn't want that.) I felt like the cruise was a chance to reconnect. And we did! On a 7-night cruise we ML 8 times. A new record! When we got home: back to the same ol' same ol'.
Porn continued to be an issue. Finally, about 3 years ago, after him promising many many times to quit porning (but always saying it was just "for me" and that it didn't have an effect on our R in his eyes), I gave him the ultimatum: porn or me. He chose me. Gave up porn entirely. Even (weeks later) admitted it *had* been bad for our M. He also suggested Wednesday as "sex day" as that was his day off from work and I would take a long lunch and come home for some fun. Later I found out this is when he started porning again: he would actually use porn to get himself worked up for me getting home. Did I take this personally? HELL YES!
By this time we had 2 kids. I love/d him immensely - he is a great dad and a good provider and all that stuff we W look for in an H. I did not follow through on my "porn or me" ultimatum. Just sunk deeper into depression. We went to a 3rd counselor, who gave us some Bible verses to read. Didn't go back to him.
He did swear off porn entirely for several months, but we were not ML any more often. It was this point where I was such a ball of nerves that the slightest hint of rejection from him would cause me to go into a screaming rage. Earlier this year I found him crying in the living room one Saturday night. He spent an hour crying into my lap about how he feels I'm not the person he married and that he ruined me by rejecting me so often over all these years. He said he wanted help, that he would do ANYTHING. I believed him. I went on Amazon and bought SSM and another book (Rekindling Desire which I currently have listed in "brand new" condition on half.com if anyone's interested...LOL!) He wouldn't read them. I reminded him of his promise, and he read part of SSM. I also started posted here (without his knowledge) and learned a lot about myself.
SO...to those who have waded through this novel of a post...maybe this isn't about mbation and is about porn. I am married to a porn addict. I am pissed at myself because I married an addict once before (an alcoholic). Even though the behavior is different, the effect on me is the same: I question myself, my self worth. Sometimes I have even thought if I didn't have the kids I would put myself out of my misery. I'm mad at myself for putting my precious beloved children in the middle of this mess. I'm mad that we bought a new house and now I feel even more trapped.
H is a wonderful man in a million different ways. I don't want to leave him but I'm starting to wonder if, for my sanity's sake, it's the only option I have left. I am starting to feel the desperation I felt when I left my alcoholic/abusive husband.
Have you looked at the porn he is viewing? Is it of a particular bent?
What made him realize he has been hurting the marriage?
It is very curious to me that he performed 8 times on your cruise and then returned to 'normal' on return from the cruise.
Can you give us more details and a time line of sorts?
Thanks, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: H is a wonderful man in a million different ways. I don't want to leave him but I'm starting to wonder if, for my sanity's sake, it's the only option I have left. I am starting to feel the desperation I felt when I left my alcoholic/abusive husband.
I can relate. In fact I've often wondered if my LDHs problems don't actually have something to do with alcoholism. He would much rather drink than have sex with me and when he isn't drinking I think a certain amount of his irritibility is a sort of "dry drunk" irritibility. The porn problem was also there in my sich. For a while, suggesting that we watch porn together was the only way I could get laid. Imagine a woman walking into a video store with two children and leaving them in the Disney area to browse while she quickly grabs a porn flick to rent in hopes of getting some action.
Quote: Even though the behavior is different, the effect on me is the same: I question myself, my self worth. Sometimes I have even thought if I didn't have the kids I would put myself out of my misery.
I know the depression can be overwhelming. You are stuck between feelings of guilt and failure and feelings of pain and low self worth. There is hope. I guarantee that you can stay in your marriage and treat yourself with self-respect at the same time by demanding that your H treats you with respect and makes a reasonable attempt to meet your reasonable demands. However, I can't guarantee that your H won't choose his "addiction" over your relationship. He might not be that strong, but you will be much stronger for standing up for yourself and making a final effort to rectify your situation.
Hugs,
MM
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
No real bent that I've noticed. It is pretty typical porn: guy meets girl (or girl meets girl), they have hot sex in several positions. As for the pictures he looks at, it is classic stuff: scantilly clad women playing with themselves. There is no bondage or S&M or gay porn or anything like that.
As for a timeline...we married in 10/99 (lived together 13 months before that). Saw a counselor most of 2000. Cruise was in late 2000. Got preggo on cruise but had miscarriage early 2001. I don't remember exactly when I gave him the ultimatum, but I was laid off soon after Sept. 11 '01 and I know the ultimatum (and "sex Wednesdays") came while I was working...so maybe mid-2001? His cry-on-my-lap session was early this year. The three years in between was a lot of power struggles in the sex arena, and a lot of me being terribly nasty. Since the cry-on-my-lap I have been a much calmer person on the outside, but really bottled up on the inside.
Not sure if that's what you meant by a timeline. I can be more clear if you can pinpoint certain areas...? Thanks.
