HeapkindMom wrote: If your sitch was reversed, you wouldn't be the same guy you are today. ----------------------
You're right. It seems that the HDs here are the fixers in their Rs. But there are exceptions here on this BB where the LDS is trying to make things better (I think they're all W though.)
But I'd still be "big picture" enough to respond to my W's attempts to improve our sex life, especially if she PMd me. That plus the natural control the W has over sex in the western society M make for a pretty complete package.
Lock the door on the sauna until your H shapes up. That will get him!
I agree with barney. We're not here just because we're HD - in fact, some of aren't HD. We're here because we're "fixers". If my W was HD and I was LD, you can bet your boots that, were I aware it was a problem for her, I would do my dead level best to fix it. Look at the hoops we have already jumped through trying to get our spouses to ML. We have clearly shown that we're willing to sacrifice and work on problems in our M.
Quote: I know I'm going to get blasted for this, but I truly believe that the W has more power to affect this than the H.
I actually kind of agree with you. I think the HDWs sich is somewhat easier to fix for the same reason I believe that it is a worse situation to be in. The reason is it is more culturally acceptable for a woman to have a low drive. If you leave your wife because she won't meet your sexual needs, your W and those around her can easily rationalize that your needs were excessive. My H doesn't have this cultural bias to support him. If I leave him because he can't meet my sexual needs, most people probably himself included would think that there was something wrong with him, not me. The situation of being the HDW in a SSM is more shameful for the HDW than it is for a HDM because she has to wonder what is wrong with her to warrant such culturally unusual behavior from her H.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: I have been reading the posts on this board for some time and I am trying to figure out if a HD spouse can really love a ND Spouse - particularly a ND spouse that firmly believes that it is perfectly acceptable to be ND.
I've been reading through this fascinating thread.
I think that a lot of words in this thread can mean many different things. Particularly the words "love" and "acceptable". And I'd like to say something about defensiveness...
Clearly it's possible to really love someone that you are not having sex with. I really love my three daughters, and my relationship with them has never been sexual. I also love my father, my mother, and various close friends with whom I have never been sexually intimate. So if you are asking if it is possible to have a loving, caring, sharing relationship with someone you aren't having sex with, I think the answer is straightforward.
But I'm not married to my daughters. I *am* married to my wife. And there's a kind of intimacy that comes with marriage and sex. So I'm chronically frustrated because I so desperately want that kind of intimacy with my wife.
If my wife were physically impaired, e.g. if she were amputated from the belly button on down and her jaw were wired shut, then I think the questions would again be clearer. It would be easy to see that I have to accept her the way she is, that I can't change her, and this all falls under the clause "in sickness and in health".
But there is no obvious physical impairment, we are married, and I have no idea how much of this is psychological and how much is physical. Neither does she. And we both have a lot of fears and questions. I love my wife, and the only wife I can really love is the one I have, as she is. But I don't have to like everything about the way she is, and there's no law saying we can't be frustrated by the ones we love.
But it's scary and confusing. I mean, if my love for my wife makes me want sexual intimacy, and she doesn't want sexual intimacy, does that mean she doesn't love me the way I love her? Is there some deep psychological syndrome that damns us to eternal celibacy? Over time, I've come to think it's not worth worrying about those things so much, it's more important to go for walks, hold hands, and find ways to communicate my love.
Enough for love. Now let's talk about "accept" - I think this word is related to the following question.
Quote: Why should I feel like I'm broken and need to be fixed?
In our society, anybody who is not having sex with their spouse probably feels blamed by everything they see in the media, including films and women's magazines, and if they share this with anybody, they probably find that people just don't know how to deal with it. Especially the LD spouse is likely to feel broken, and to feel like everyone wants to fix them.
For my wife, it's been really important to know that I would love her even if we don't get this fixed. Until we talked that out, she was not willing to have the courage to try. After all, what if we try to work things out and determine that we simply aren't going to fix this problem - does that mean we can't be married anymore? I think that has been a big fear with her.
I do think we HDs need to work hard to share our needs in a non-blaming way, and to communicate our love even when things aren't working on the sexual front.
Also, I'd stay away from framing this as "the way she is". Not having sex is not about "the way she is", it's about "what the two of you aren't doing but you really wish you were." You love her the way she is, and you love her in a way that makes you want to be sexually intimate with her. You would love to have sex with her "the way she is". This doesn't seem to be working. How can the two of you make progress here?
Not having sex is a difficulty the two of you are having, not your wife's fundamental identity.
Quote: If you want sex one evening and she doesn't want sex, why would she care if you went out to a bar and got it from someone else?
Because sex is an expression of our marriage. Having sex is not like ordering a pizza, and having sex with someone who is not my wife is not like playing the flute with someone who is not my wife because she didn't feel like playing that night.
Seriously, do you mean to imply that on any given evening, if your spouse doesn't want to have sex with you, you should just go out and get some?
What do you play? I play flute in an English country dance band, and I also play pennywhistle and dumbek (an Arabic drum).
But I'm a few miles away from Finland ;->
At any rate, I agree that it's important to have other things in your life and not just obsess about sex all the time. Of course, that means I still obsess about sex an awful lot of the time...
Quote: I couldn't deny or repress my HD nature without damaging my mental health. I felt as I neared midlife that I might have to give up my marriage in order to have any chance of quality of life as I aged
Yes, I have those feelings. I'm 45 now, and for the most part I missed out on sex in my 20's, my 30's, and the first half of my 40's. I'm guessing I've had sex about 20-25 times in my life, and I have a real sense of loss about that.
I do feel strongly that my wife IS my wife, and I'm not the kind of guy who could have a meaningless affair. If I had an affair, it would become meaningful, and I can't afford that.
Quote: Seriously, do you mean to imply that on any given evening, if your spouse doesn't want to have sex with you, you should just go out and get some?
If your spouse doesn't care and it's not in violation of your moral code, why not? I just use this example from PM because it illustrates that clearly most of our LD spouses understand that sex is important and not something to be taken lightly or they wouldn't care if we were to do this. I didn't come up with this on my own, Schnarch uses it as an example of differentiated behavior in his book. In the example he gives, the H does follow his wife to the bar and she doesn't actually have to consider having sex with someone else, but I don't think Schnarch is promoting dishonest, manipulative behavior, therefore the clear implication is that it would be differentiated of the wife to consider having sex with someone else at the bar if her husband won't oblige. I think this sort of bold move might be necessary with someone like my H whose LD problem is that he is oppositional. Everything I've done so far to let him know that I intend to have a sex life whether or not he wants one, has caused major improvements in our relationship. I know this seems counter-intuitive, but in my sich it works. As I stated on another thread, my H frequently seems to not want to have sex with me simply because I do want to have sex with him. By letting him know that my need for sex is a constant, but my need for sex with HIM might be a variable, I actually take away his feeling of "opposition" and increase his desire.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
