Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Joyrides and Backslides--The Story of Us

Well, folks, I keep saying that I will not start a new post whenever one gets locked out and yet I always do.

Things are going pretty well with us; there are a lot of things that slooowly work themselves out, over the course of time, and then there are things that are blasted into working order right from the beginning. We are in the slooowly process now.
In fact, I am beginning to accept that this is a process, PERIOD, and not a destination that he and I will reach. I think that he will always have to be mindful of my wants/needs and I will always have to be mindful of his. It does not come naturally to us and no amount of un-fusing is going to accomplish that. What the un-fusing will help us with is to not take everything so personally and make accusations, etc.

Accepting less-than-perfection is very hard for me. I am getting there, though.

One thing I need to work on is to recognize his subtle signals of loving desire. His signals of desire may never look like what I am used to...so I need to recognize HIS method. For instance, Saturday we went to the store and I wore a black halter dress and black high heeled sandals. These are the kind of outfits I can get away with wearing while I am pregnant; otherwise I look too 'showy' (maybe it is my height, I don't know).
He never said a word and never groped or anything like that but he kept holding my hand and putting his arm around me, etc. It occurred to me, after a while of him doing this, that this was his way of being a little protective and desirous of me. As soon as we were home, it all stopped and it did not result in him wanting sex that night, so I can't say that I really stirred any desire in him, but I do know that I felt it briefly and I need to pay more attention to those small times and enjoy them.

Joyrides: My entire life is a joyride compared to what it was just two years ago. We seldom had sex and even then it was because he would awaken me in the middle of the night and do it quietly and without comment. The next day he would pretend that it never happened. We argued a LOT and were completely distant and disconnected from each other. We related to each other as co-parents only and there was no real love between us.

Now: We ML frequently, although not as much as I'd like while I'm pregnant, and are connected most days. We have a sense of each other as lovers, instead of merely parents of the same kids. He shows (small) signs of desire, the hugs and kisses are much more frequent. We hardly ever argue. He says that he cannot believe how much happier he is now than he used to be--he wishes we would have done this yrs ago. We crave time together alone and can actually TALK about sex, using the real words and all, lol.

So having said all that I had a huge backslide last night! Oh man, it was ugly. I know for a fact it was hormonally induced because I could feel that irrationality bubbling in me all day. I knew I was hostile and that there was no real reason for it. I even told H at one point that I was wishin someone would come along and give me a reason to pick on them.
I have never had PMS but I can relate while I am pregnant. So far, I haven't felt that out of control hormonal "I'm going to kill someone" feeling during this pg, but it was there in full force yest.
I managed to get the kids in bed an hour early and H and I hit the sack, too. He proceeded to fall asleep and I started in on him with a bunch of fused and pathetic bulloney. It was ugly. At one point I was even laughing at myself cause I knew how ridiculous I was being, but then the next moment I was going off on him again. I did eventually apologize and say that I knew I was just having a bad day.

About the only interesting thing to come out of the conversation was this: H has always maintained that if I would get the kids to bed earlier I'd get a lot more sex. This is one of those "if you achieve the impossible, you will get more lovin" type comments that probably all HD people have heard. You know it's a line but what can you do? Is there a way to test it out--no, because it is achieving the impossible, right.
Well, I got the kids to bed and it wasn't even 8:00 yet (go me!) and he still wasn't interested. I pointed this out to him and he mumbled something else. I asked him to please just admit it to me and himself that the time on the clock has nothing to do with it and it is an EXCUSE. He said, Yes of course it is.

So score one for Honey on that admission; however, I lost about a quadzillion points overall for being so needy and irrational.

Oh well win some, lose some. Today I am trying to keep the big picture in sight and keep these hormones in check!

hp

How weird. We both wore sexy black items of clothing this weekend and then got super crabby. Can this just be a coincidence?

This isn't really sex advice, but at one point my H and I decided that it was necessary for our sanity that our very active kids have an early bed time. So, for years they were in their beds at 8:00 with no exceptions. The only thing they were allowed to do besides sleep was to quietly look at books. I am generally a very permissive parent and this was one of very few rules I strictly enforced, but it was definitely a winner. My H and I got some peace and quiet in the evening and my kids were both excellent readers at an early age.

Discussion du jour:

Crabbiness due to lack of sex

For me, this is a real thing. The interesting thing is that it is a real thing with H, also, although he didn't know that's what his crabbiness was due to until recent yrs of regular sex.
However, there is no question that my crabbiness comes much earlier than his. On Day 3, I am getting antsy and the things that I would normally blow off are making me testy. By Day 7, I am getting to be a basketcase and no longer rational.

Is this fusion? I really don't think so.

If I am to believe that my H's libido is caused by both mental and physical factors (which I do), then why is this an unreasonable thing for him to accept?
I know that his body just does not want as much sex as my own. Getting past his mental blocks has increased the sex fantastically and I'm sure it will continue to improve as we both progress. But STILL he will not want it as much as me; I think we both agree on that. And I'm fine with it! Because we are close enough that it shouldn't cause that much of a conflict, really.

So shouldn't he be fine with me getting crabby after a certain number of days has gone by? After all, it is not mental crabbiness...well it is...but it is also a physical reaction to no bodily release. It is not me being selfish or a baby or overreacting or being a nympho.
It is just how I feel! It is the same as if he was to go a long period of time without eating. Sure he could mentally get past it and remain cheerful, but there is also an element of bodily discomfort that he would be working against. That is, it ISN'T all in my mind or my greedy personality.

H is actually quite understanding of my crabbiness as long as it has been a week or so. He is not very understanding of my Day Three attitude but even I think I need to get a grip on that, lol!

So how about it? How do you handle your crabbiness and is your spouse understanding of it at all?

HP

honey,

In my recent convo with my W, I did tell her...

"Despite the lack of a schedule, I will still have to deal with hard feelings...it's just that I'm no longer going to subject you to it...I'll just go ride my bike."

This is the answer to Mojo's post about creating a better "two choice dilemma" than "have sex or deal with my crabbiness". I can't believe how clear this is to me now. In a couple months, I could see my W coming back to me and saying something identical to the convo we had before but this time she will say "I feel like I have no choice...that either I have sex with you or else deal with the fact that you are never around". The crucible will never go away for her. My "new" initiative isn't about letting out of the crucible...it's about putting myself into one too.

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So how about it? How do you handle your crabbiness and is your spouse understanding of it at all?

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If you read my last post on the PM REVIEW thread, you will learn that a lightbulb finally went on for my H and he now knows that my crabbyness can probably be alleviated with an offer of sex. I think he was really confusing me with his mother who is one of the most emotionally-fused and needy people on the planet. I now believe that he equated my sex drive directly with emotional neediness. Of course, it didn't help that being sex-starved did eventually make me feel desperate for validation. I think he saw every request for sex as a pathetic cry of "Do you love me?" rather than a frustrated scream of "I am horny!". Of course, it didn't help that being sex-starved did eventually make me feel desperate for validation and my natural reaction to frustration is to cry. It also didn't help that my style wasn't conventionally sexy. He probably rationalized that if I really just wanted sex, I'd do more to look sexy.

Of course, the big problem with this theory is that it goes against the PM guideline that spouses really know their partners very well. However, it goes very well with our HDW theory that LDH's are CLUELESS!!

So when you get home, you are no longer crabby?

That is interesting..

I really don't have that option to go out when I'm upset at the lack of sex. My kids are little and they need me here. This is, in part, an excuse and partly truth.
In a little while I will have a newborn who is dependent on me for nourishment so I will not be able to leave it at all.

So, for me, the answer to that question is to immerse myself in my kids and let that fill the hole. It is hard to do because my H is one of those people who will want to be part of the action while this is happening and, quite frankly, his presence annoys me when he is not meeting my needs.
It is a real struggle with me, can you tell! When I do overcome it I have good results but they are very sloooow. That is, if I am getting crabby but get past it, that is still no guarantee that I will get sex anytime soon. Rather I will probably get it later rather than sooner, or he will 'forget' for another week or so. Me initiating a conversation seems to be the fastest and most effective way to get us back on track.

As I keep saying here, he is actually appreciative of me getting us back on track. I realize that this is something that will need to be dealt with at some point...encouraging him to stay on track himself and not rely on me.

Time for lunch!

Interesting point honey. You are in a tough situation.

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his presence annoys me when he is not meeting my needs.

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This is interesting because it's similar to the way I was feeling last week. I think a better way to characterize it would be...

"When my needs aren't met, his presence annoys me". Then it doesn't sound like he's tolerable only while he's on top of you. But ask yourself why?

Also, there is a big problem to my new 2-choice. When I'm away, my doesn't miss me...she just watches TV. Crabbiness might need to be the other side of the equation.

Man, I'm still thinking about the quote above because it really is true for me as well. I'm not sure what to think about this. Maybe my 2CD (two choice dilemma) should be "ml or mtb with me" .

HP,

I know that your post wasn’t directed to me, but I’m going to reply anyway.

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So when you get home, you are no longer crabby?

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Going out for a motorcycle ride does help with the symptoms of lack of sex. A good day at the shooting range can do it as well. I guess it’s just sublimating the sex drive, but it does seem to work. It’s not a cure, but it can help to alleviate the symptoms.

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…quite frankly, his presence annoys me when he is not meeting my needs

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I have that problem too. I think that accounts for the crabbiness – I’m annoyed at W, so I respond by being crabby. That’s not all of it. As the wise HP once said, “After all, it is not mental crabbiness...well it is...but it is also a physical reaction to no bodily release.”

I’m just not to the point where we can talk about this. I’ve mentioned multiple times that I got my courage all screwed up for “the talk” and W just spontaneously started ML somewhere around once a week. I’ve suppressed my urge to try to find out why, so I/we haven’t talked about it at all. I really want to, but I just haven’t figured out how.

Wildebube

Dave,
I am also the type of person who gets very crabby when I haven't eaten. My mother said I was like this straight outta the womb. The very first thing I do in the morn is eat cereal. (well after attending to the D's)
I am not a meal skipper. I eat 3 squares a day (healthy ones too) and do not snack. I tend to eat a lot during mealtime cause I have a big appetite and also b/c I do not snack.

Why am I going on about this nonsensical crud? Because it sortof does correlate to how I am with no sex. I get a sense of mental crabbiness going on when my body feels discomfort.
My H would be perfectly understanding of my Hunger Crabbiness, and would even take it upon himself to remedy it.

So why is there this idea that we should all not be crabby over the lack of sex yet hunger is an okay reason to crab?

OR is it that both partners need to agree on what is an acceptable amount of time to pass before the crabbiness sets in?
For example, H does not go along with my Day Three 'tude, he thinks that ridiculous. But let it pass to one week with no sex and he is perfectly accomodating. I think this is because that is the time that HE starts to feel bodily discomfort!
I wish he could see that it is no different with me, just quicker.
All in good time, Honey, I keep telling myself.

I have spent a great deal of time trying to sublimate this tendency of mine to get crabby after a certain time period but I don't know if that is the right thing to do or not. It has certainly acted as motivation for H, which I hate, but at the same time it is just a natural reaction that happens...nothing calculated on my part at all. Just as if I hadn't eaten all day and it was 6 o'clock, I'd be a bear.
(btw, I can't even imagine such a scenario occurring!)

Honey, who is now hungry again...:D

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So why is there this idea that we should all not be crabby over the lack of sex yet hunger is an okay reason to crab?

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A lot of people are overweight due to "emotional" eating. They eat when they are bored, anxious, sad, happy, tired etc.. Diet books based on this premise, tell overeaters that they need to tune in to their bodies and look for signs of true bodily hunger like stomach grumbles or light-headedness. These books also indicate that once you've separated your need to eat for emotional reasons from your need to eat for hunger, it's okay to consciously decide to eat for emotional reasons sometimes.

I think this rule of thumb applies to sexual hunger also. When you are a HD person in an unhappy emotionally-fused relationship a certain amount of your sex drive is going to be emotionally based (in a bad way). How do you determine which part of your drive is validation motivated and which part is true physical hornyness? This is my problem with the crabbyness issue. I do believe that lack of sex causes some kind of chemical build-up in me that makes me crabby, but being rejected by someone I love makes me crabby too and so does PMS and a million other annoying things. Determining which kind of crabby I am suffering from at any given moment can be tricky.

If I try to tune in to my body for obvious signs of hornyness that would be the equivalent of a stomach grumble, I run into difficulties again. Just thinking about whether I'm feeling physically horny can easily make me feel physically horny much of the time. Maybe it's easier for men because they can think "Well, I had a hard-on when I woke up and I got another one when my cute co-worker walked by and yet another when I read HPs latest post and even though I was tired by the time I got home and my wife wasn't being nice or looking particularly attractive, it happened again so I must be feeling physically horny today.".It just isn't that straight-forward for a woman IMO. The best that I can do is to ask myself "Are you horny enough that if Mr. Wilson isn't willing, you are going to want to MB?" or "In a world in which you would suffer no consequences for your actions, are you horny enough that you would do it with any reasonably attractive man?". I figure if I can answer "Yes" than my hornyness is of the physical variety.

However, the other thing to consider is whether I should try to correlate my encounters with Mr.Wilson directly with my level of physical hornyness. On the one hand, it might be better sometimes if I did just MB when I was physically horny. On the other hand, I am going to feel repressed if I can't sometimes just want to fool around and maybe get in the mood just because sex is a fun, healthy activity or have sex because it is a way of expressing love sometimes. For instance, what's wrong with wanting sex because you're bored and there's nothing good on TV, or wanting sex because it's your anniversary and sex is a good way to celebrate your love? I know I shouldn't eat Fritos because I am bored or eat cake to celebrate because I will become fat and unhealthy. I can't complete this analogy for sex.