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Minnie --

Yes...I think it would be a great book for you to read! Kind of the "psychology based" version of Ruiz's four agreements!

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Having a good week -- getting a lot done at work -- feeling much better with the more normal routine. Have had a lowkey week at home with h -- mostly hanging out, watching our beloved Red Sox! Errand night last night was quite successful -- went to Walmart and the grocery store -- It only took an hour or so but we basically cleared off our "outside the house" task list for the weekend! Awesome! Now maybe I can get to cleaning the bathroom this weekend instead

The weekend looks good because it's not crammed full of activities -- tonight we'll watch the Sox and get takeout from someplace. Tomorrow AM h will be off studying so I'm getting a manicure and taking my car in for an oil change. Saturday afternoon we'll go hiking -- maybe a movie in the PM?

Sunday I think we'll go hiking early and then off to the Sox game in the afternoon. The weather is looking beautiful!

It's time to return "How can I forgive you" to the library but wanted to post the "Ten Steps of Acceptance"

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1. You honor the full sweep of your emotions.

2. You give up your need for revenge but continue to seek a just resolution.

3. You stop obsessing about the injury and reengage with life.

4. You protect yourself from further abuse.

5. You frame the offender's behavior in terms of his own personal struggles.

6. You look honestly at your own contribution to the injury.

7. You challenge your false assumptions about what happened.

8. You look at the offender apart from his offense, weighing the good against the bad.

9. You carefully decide what kind of relationship you want with the offender.

10. You forgive yourself for your own failings.

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It's a very interesting book. Recommended reading.

Sage

Thanks for posting that, Sage.

It's what I am working through over on my thread. The ones that particularly struck a chord with me were -

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2. You give up your need for revenge but continue to seek a just resolution.

3. You stop obsessing about the injury and reengage with life

4. You protect yourself from further abuse.

6. You look honestly at your own contribution to the injury.

9. You carefully decide what kind of relationship you want with the offender.

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I am currently reading Living with the Passive Aggressive Man, and although my H doesn't fit the description even 50%, there are definite echoes of his behaviour in the descriptions, that are enlightening to think about. It also talks about how one's own behaviour facilitates PA behaviour, and I think I am a manager/rescuer type to some extent.

Even though we are legally separated, I have to deal with H all the time, so I need to learn how to negotiate my way wisely through our contact.

Livnlearn

Hey Sage,

Just stopping by to say hi.

Thanks for sharing that book with us. Sounds interesting.

Sending you hugs.

Hey PIB and LNL,

Thanks for the visits!

PIB -- I'll bet you're super busy with school and babyontheway!

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So, I'm close to getting locked out and I've been waiting for inspiration to start a new thread but today is definitely NOT the day... We had a disastrous night last night after a very nice weekend. You can call it my "bigtime backslide".

Like I said, we had a great weekend...lots of positives! h did so many cute and loving things. It was awesome.

We went to the sox game yesterday afternoon and h had studying to do when we got back (evening). I read a bit and then decided to check my email. I waslked into the "study" (where we both have computers) and saw h click from "some other screen" (I say "hotmail") to his homework. I sat down at my computer and just felt the energy go out of me. I got up and he asked me what was wrong. I said (stupidly, whack, whack) -- "I walk in here and you change from your hotmail screen to your homework. I just don't understand that". He said "oh, hotmail? do you see hotmail on my computer?" I didn't even bother to look...I said "whatever". He said "it was espn.com" -- I said "OK." and walked away.

WELL...h had a fit. started throwing things and pushing things off of his desk. Screamed that he wanted a divorce. Wanted a divorce IMMEDIATELY. That we wouldn't go to work or school today that we we go to a lawyer instead. I just kept saying "OK" to everything because he was actually freaking me out a bit. He said he was tired of getting "a load of crap" (or something) from me -- I said "I didn't give you a load of crap" but then changed that to OK after he kept knocking stuff off of tables.

I went downstairs until he calmed down and then went to bed. He came to be a bit later...got up early then went to school. I called in sick to work.

I just don't know what to think. yesterday we were looking at condos in town and that night he's screaming divorce. I'll admit that my even saying anything was STUPID (times a million) but come on...

There's a big part of me that thinks if he's still talking divorce after two years of this (and the resemblence to two years ago was frightening) then maybe he's just right...we've got a ton of great stuff but we both seem to feel backed into a corner in this area...or maybe "I want a divorce" is code for "we need to fix this part" -- duh, no kidding.

I noticed that he had the heating pad out...again, shades of two years ago (he has a chronic kidney ailment)...it's been better for a while now but two years ago the pain was bad.

any suggestions? I don't feel like doing the "same old" here but I'm running out of thoughts...

Sage

Well, first, Sage, I guess I'd do a little snooping. I know, I know, snooping is frowned upon - but really, if you checked his history and found that he WAS on espn - wouldn't your approach be a little different than if he WAS on hotmail and lied to you about it? (assuming you're not already positive it was hotmail?) Interesting to note that he got so mad but DIDN'T pull up his history to prove to you that you were wrong.

Now, as for him saying divorce - could just be that he's so scared you'll leave him some day because of all this that he'd rather "get it over with" than live in fear? Or could be that he still has something to hide. Obviously it's important to figure out which it is.

So I guess I would approach him with calm, reassuring ("I have forgiven you, I'd never leave you, I just still struggle with trust a little bit, and we need to be able to be completely honest with each other"). Then let him know what concrete things would make you feel better - and ask him what concrete things would make him feel better.

Ellie

Thanks Ellie...

He had multiple windows open so I'm sure that both hotmail AND espn.com would have shown up in the history.

I've actually been in anti-snoop mode all morning..would love to know what's going on but can't bring myself to look. It's too much of a regression to old behavior and I just can't do it.

He came home early from school. Said he needed a chunk of money to get an apartment. I answered matter of factly -- told him I was sure we could call our financial planner to get some funds.

We're sitting in the same room not even talking. this is absurd.

Sage

I had a similar situation last week. H threw out the D word again. Said let's just get this over with. I let him cool down over night and just said I'm sorry that things got out of control. I don't want a D and I hope you will forgive me. Did not wait for a response. Later H acted like nothing happened. I think the D outbursts are motivated by fear that we are going to leave.

I'm sorry you are in this sitch. Hugs to you. You will be in my prayers.

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We're sitting in the same room not even talking. this is absurd.

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Well then, speak up!!!!
Tell him this is absurd, that you are sorry but given the circumstances, it is really not that unusual that you would be worried about the hotmail thing, and that his reaction is really disproportionate and you would like to have an honest discussion about why that is so. Is it because he's afraid he'll have to live with the guilt forever? If so, reassure him that you ARE healing and it trakes time and a willingness on his part to be open.

If you can't talk directly to him, write him a note.

Ellie

I have found if I apologize and let H calm down and then talk about the issue later when we are calm it goes better. If I confront him when he is pissed he just gets defensive and nothing is ever resolved. Just a thought.

Took your advice. Apologized. Ask for input on what happened. His response was familiar -- that he scewed up (affair) but that he feels like I may forgive him but never forget it and that he will never forgive himself and he doesn't want to look back in 20 years and regret staying married. That he feels like it will always be something between us and that he doesn't want to live his life that way.

Claims that I'm fooling myself if I think I can get over it. Thinks it's the "devil I know" that keeps me here.

We talked a fair amount. Says my desire for more closure (thru conversation) just hurts him -- he doesn't want to talk or even think about the affair. Says that he knows he was the one who planted the landmines, etc.

I don't know how to "convince" him that we won't end up in a similar sitch to last night because I'm not sure it's true...I'm trying as hard as I can to manage my insecurities, etc. I don't think it's a neverending proposition but he doesn't want to hear that.

I told him that I didn't want to try to talk him out of D even though it's not what I want.

It sounds absurd but I don't think the good times are enough for him...he wants a clean slate.

Sage