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Hey Ms. Pam and Shiny! Thanks for the visits!

Pam, missing reading about your adventures on your thread!

Had a busy day at work yesterday and then met h for drinks/apps. Got a bunch of great emails from him throught the day (+). Lots of positive affection, too, over dinner and watching the sox game at home (+). Heard a lot about school and his law review paper. I love when he talks about school!

Sage

Good Morning Sage,

I do love stopping by and reading all your positives.

Have a wonderful day!

Those of you who know my "story" know that OW was a "friend"...started out as a "one of the guys" that hung around with h (from work) and then became part of the group we occasionally socialized with ("the guys" from work and their spouses). I had had a 'bad feeling' about ow pretty early on and had recalled an email exchange with h about it. I have to admit that I spent more than a bit of time in the last year looking for that e-mail exchange in my outbox and could never find it. Yesterday, I was looking for something work related and lo and behold, there it was. It was the oddest thing because I swear, it appeared out of nowhere.

Anyway that sent me down the unpleasant rathole of looking before and after the initial conversation -- trying to reconstruct what the hell was going on. I dunno...looking for lamea$$ clues, putting the puzzle pieces together of something that doesn't even have a regular shape.

From what my email tells me, the initial exchange happened 3/6/02. Shortly after that, ow invited herself (and her husband) to a social event that we were planning...that was the first time she had been included. In june I remember seeing the h and ow together and KNOWING that something was going on, confronted h, got stonewalled. The unease carried on until 11/1/02 aka dday (when I found proof of the EA).

I had remembered HAVING the email exchange and some of the content (him telling me that it was my insecurity and paranoia, his anger) but what I hadn't remembered was this that I wrote:

Quote:

---

But -- it's the above paragraph (overall confusion) combined with the stuff
> that is "all about me" -- Not feeling well connected to you, feeling guilty
> about school and work load, not feeling particularly chosen or
> acknowledged, missing a level of intimacy lately, etc. I'm vacillating
> between just wanting to be closer and more connected to you (since there
> feels as though there's a distance lately) and feeling like an [censored] for
> that (you make it all about you, etc). Unfortunately, I'm dramatically
> reminded of the "pre-counseling" days when it seemed as though my seeking
> out more connection just pissed you off.

---

My email outbox also tells the tale that we were fighting a lot around that time, that $ issues were present, that h had been recently diagnosed with a chronic illness, that he was having a tough time at work, but that we were going out together (movies, dinner) and having at least some level of e-mail exchange (tho' absent the ILY's of today...)

or or

I'm all over the map emotionally on this one...

On the one hand, I feel sad as hell. The express train trip I took back to THAT TIME just makes me sad...for me mostly (hey, what can I say?) but also for h, too.

There's another part of me that surprisingly just isn't reacting...it's like I'm feeling "ok, interesting piece of data but wasn't that eons ago? why are you gonna start dwelling on it now?"

And the other part of me (hey, I'm a Gemini! I'm mult-faceted) is suprisingly, well, pleased...that my insights were dead-on...that the signs were there...Yah, I tried to TALK thru them with h (obviously didn't work) but I could feel the lack of intimacy and connection...and know now SO MUCH more about how to keep that alive, what works, what doesn't...

I really, really wish that I could talk with h about this e-mail and use it as a springboard for a deeper understanding...sounds lame but I don't even know how to do that.

Anyway...here's my cainercast for the day...perhaps telling me to reconsider:

THERE'S a seemingly easy way to sort out your current difficulty. All you need is one specific resource. The only trouble is, it is not a resource that you seem to have access to. So, you feel frustrated. You can see no further than your need - and your desire to meet it by hook or by crook. You really must, though, force yourself to see further than that. There's another, less obvious way to get round your problem. It calls for more effort and ingenuity - but it offers one great advantage. Ultimately, 'plan B' is a lot more feasible.


************
Positives from yesterday:

1. h sent me an email of a restaurant he wants to try -- I love it when he suggests new places!

2. h surprised me by buying some sports related items -- fun things for us to use together to talk/interact more about baseball and football -- I really love how much fun we have together!!! (He was funny -- he asked me if I wished he had brought home something about fabric or cooking )

3. we had dinner with his parents and then had to go to a wake. I was more quiet than usual I think but h didn't absorb that and get down himself...instead he was very loving and affectionate.

Sage

hey Sage,

just offering up some of my thoughts...

Quote:

---

I really, really wish that I could talk with h about this e-mail and use it as a springboard for a deeper understanding...sounds lame but I don't even know how to do that.

---

You realy realy CAN use the re-discovered email as a springboard for deeper understanding...it just may not come from a conversation WITH h directly relating to the email.

If I'm correct in my memory such discussions (bringing up the past, initiating r talks) haven't worked out to well in the past...to many assumptions, expectations, defensiveness etc.

You can instead gain an understanding of how what you did then didn't work and what you did that did work.

in other words...realize what "deeper understanding" you might possibly gain of the past, isn't going to effect at all the deeper connection you have already gained with h.

anyway I've got a midge here who wants me to go color and another one that needs to be picked up from kindergarten.

LL

Wouldn't it be nice if they could tell what plan "B" is?

... but I agree with the gist of it ... I think you're going need to take some more time to mull it over. In doing so, the light bulb may go on over head as to what Plan "B" should be. Start by simply asking is Plan "A" going to bring your closer to your goals and your H or is it opening an old wound rather that's better left scabbed over?

I know you'll come up with the correct answer!

'til later,
KAW

Good morning Sage,

I am sorry that finding that email has sent you to a place of sadness and frustration. I do, however, agree with LL regarding using this email for YOU. For you to see that you tried all this before and it didn't work with H.

I ,as you know, struggle with wanting to KNOW all the time. I need to constantly focus AWAY from needing to know it all and focus on today. I dont' have the R you have today but I focus on dd, my job, my friends, my life TODAY.

I also think that every phase we go through prepares us for the next phase. Example: I'm starting to come out of a down 2-week-period where I slept more than usual, cried more than usual, etc.....and....I think it helped get me to today. Today I feel that I really have no control over H and he does, so why worry about it?

I trust and believe that you will work this out in your mind and perhaps get to the other side where this stuff wont' hit a nerve anymore.

Quote:

---

There's another part of me that surprisingly just isn't reacting...it's like I'm feeling "ok, interesting piece of data but wasn't that eons ago? why are you gonna start dwelling on it now?"

---

You're on your way already.....

Have a wonderful weekend!
Minnie

Good morning Sage,

Thank you for the encouraging words on my thread. We'll see where I go next.

So, how was YOUR weekend? What wonderful positives do you have for us?

Minnie

Hey Minnie and LL and KAW and Pam...thanks for the visit!

LL -- You're right on (and KAW, I think LL identified "plan B" for me!) -- use the e-mail for ME, to chart what works and what doesn't, etc. NOT as a stepping stone for a conversation (R talk!! ) with h!

Had a good weekend but busy. We stayed in Friday night (Sox game!). Saturday I ran some errands in the AM while h did homework. We watched the Sox debacle in the afternoon. Sat night we went for a "beer tasting" at the house of a friend -- the folks that h used to work with -- I let myself get a little emotional (inside!) because ow used to be part of that "group" --

Yesterday h was at a charity walk all day so I bustled around in the AM and then went to my neice's bday party -- it was good to see her but it's always a mixed blessing to be around the rest of my family...

positives? well, h is awesome had some great relaxing time last night -- lots of hand holding and snuggling on the couch. also, I came home from my errands on Saturday and was feeling a bit down...I told him and he said "oh, I have just the thing for you...close your eyes". I did. He said "open them" and when I did he was standing in front of me and he said "hey, you're married to THIS GUY" How could I not be enchanted by THAT?

Sage

Enjoying my job a lot more in the past few weeks since I started shedding my "second job" activities -- feeling much calmer and more focused!

went out to dinner last night with a friend -- had a great mexican meal at a place I'd never been before and had the chance to catch up with her. Awesome.

Got a wonderful e-mail from h yesterday AM where the final line was "I'm so happy being married to you". That seems like it's worth multiple positives, no?? It was just so darned nice to hear...and I made sure to mention it to h last night. I brought him some food home from the restaurant and we hung out on the couch talking about school, work, sport etc. We were both really snuggly...kind of draped all over each other sitting on the couch...and he was very verbal -- said "I really love you" at one point...it was a positives packed day!

Oh, yah, at one point he asked me if anything was troubling me ... I said "no. do I seem troubled?" He said "not really. I was just wondering". Not sure why -- maybe he's still not used to the quieter Sage? But anyway I said "If something is troubling me can I bring it to you?" and he said "yes". Don't know why I need regular reinforcement that it's ok to bring stuff up to him...but I do.

Let me recommend a book that I'm currently reading:

Love is Never Enough

"eyesopened" mentioned it on her thread...it's a "solution based" book that is directly in line with DB'ing -- it's helping me to see how my expectations and ASSumptions (and h's too) about what the OP's actions MEAN (you know...the "meaning" you ascribe to the behavior of your spouse!) led us to trouble. I'm not at the "solutions" part yet but it's helping me to have that questioning voice in my head speaking back to my knee jerk reactions and ASSumptions.

Sage

Hi Sage,

I looked up "Love is Never Enough" from your link; it looks like something I should get. I've put it on my list. Thanks!

Hope you have a great weekend!
Minnie