Today (yesterday, actually, since it is after midnight) I am 44 years old. I did not get the one present that I wanted the most, so instead I am writing this. (BTW, I previously posted a couple of times as TeeBone, but someone else was using a similar moniker, so I changed my name.)
I have been married to my wife 19 years, have been with her since I was 18. We have two lovely daughters 6 and 12 years old. We have very busy lives right now: we are in the process of building a new house and selling our old one. My mother-in-law, who lives with us, was hospitalized this week with a severely broken leg, and, because of her advanced age and poor physical condition, she will probably be wheelchair-bound for the rest of her life. But here I am, selfish man that I am, complaining about my love life.
I haven't had sex since we conceived our 6 year old. Prior to that we didn't have any sex except to conceive our 12 year old. Basically, sex started to dry up in the early '80s before we even got married. At some point I stopped asking because I was sick of getting shot down. Both my wife and I are non-confrontational. We both tend to let things stew inside of us. She probably doesn't want to make love with me because of something I did (or didn't do) a long time ago but she doesn't want to bring up with me because she doesn't want to make me mad or get me defensive. So instead of saying anything, I walk around angry. I get snippy about stupid stuff I shouldn't care about and became an unpleasant person to be around.
What changed? I lost 60lb last year. I used to see myself in a mirror and think "I wouldn't f**k that either." But losing weight has given enough of a boost to my self image to feel that I should be treated better than that.
When I broached the subject with my wife a couple of months ago, after years of silence, she just sort of chuckled sadly and said "Oh, Tony,". She really didn't have much else to say about it, except why was I bringing it up now. Certainly nothing changed.
A month ago, after my wife had gone to sleep, I wrote a very heartfelt letter asking if, for my birthday, we could make love. I really bared my soul in that letter, told her how sad and lonely I had become. I wrote it, taped it to the bedroom TV where she would see it first thing when she got up, and then I went to bed. When I got up the next morning, she was already up and about but didn't say anything about it. I couple of minutes later I found the letter in the trash. I confronted her about it and she said that she just couldn't get close to me. Since then, she has told me that she needs to figure out how she can forgive me. Since we pretty much stopped having sex before we got married in 1985, it's some pretty old hatchets that need to be buried!
Since that conversation, I have taken some positive but unilateral steps. I bought SSM, which is somewhat simplistic in its prescriptions, but had two great benefits: 1) I learned that my wife and I are not particularly abnormal, and 2) I discovered this forum. Then I got "Passionate Marriage" by D. Schnarch (PM for all of you who are new to this forum), which is, in my opinion, a much more difficult but a more rewarding read. I'm about half way through that. My wife doesn't want to read either one of these, because she doesn't want her Mom or the kids to see her reading about these topics. I got her a book called "Forgive and Forget" and she's read about a chapter of that. I scheduled an appointment with a marriage councilor for tomorrow, but with my wife's Mom in the hospital, we can't find anyone to watch the kids. Yet again, our marriage is the lowest priority. I told her that I was going to see the councilor by myself. She said that I would probably feel better after I spent an hour cutting her down. I told her that I need to talk to someone so I can deal with my own feelings.
Finally, I bought aroma therapy candles for our bedroom, created a mix of some of our old favorite romantic tunes, and sat up in bed. I let her know that I wanted to make love with her, but she didn't have to if she didn't want to. She took off her glasses and pulled the covers up around her shoulders as she always does. I kissed her good night, blew out the candle and left.
I wish I didn't love her. I wish I didn't want her. The fact that she doesn't want me makes me sick. I used to think she was the love of my life. How can I get over someone who sleeps in the same bed?
Tony
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
I'm afraid I'm not going to be of much help, I'm fairly new here too, and my copies of SSM and PM are only in the mail (yes, they are in the mail !)
But I wanted you to know you're not alone, our stories sound very similar - in reverse. Our LM started going way down a couple years before we married - when we moved in together. We had 2 wedding nights (married in US 'blessed' in his country) on the second night - he brought computer magazines to read in bed.
While I was pregnant with D8, things stopped, in spite of my asking for more, only started again to conceive D6 (which didn't take much), since then, we've ML once (and I have 4 yr old twin boys to prove it!)
I guess it was taking care of the kids that kept me going, and though I lost the 'baby fat' pretty well, I've since put it back on, I guess food's become my substitute :-) (gotta work on that too - though I do carry my weight well, doesn't stop me from getting looks!).
I will say that in the couple weeks I've been here, just focusing more on me, and how I react has meant that H and I are able to talk more, though we haven't had 'the' talk yet...I too recently wrote H a heartfelt letter, he didn't throw it away, but he hasn't commented, either.
Good luck, hope I can be of more help as I figure out my own sitch!
Tony, first of all, Happy Birthday! Feel good about yourself, even if your W doesn't. You have much to be proud of. You lost 60 lbs in a YEAR!! Holy sh!t, Batman, that's no small potatoes. What an accomplishment. I've lost about half that in the past 2 years.
Trust me when I say it can get better, but as you're no doubt becoming aware, you've got some heavy lifting ahead of you.
Quote: Both my wife and I are non-confrontational. We both tend to let things stew inside of us.
Big clue there.... if you explore that, you may find lots of "crucible" stuff to work on. Don't be TOO discouraged at this point at the way your W is acting. She's still assuming nothing has changed. When you change yourself, for real, she'll be in for a rude awakening, and she just MAY find out she does care after all. Don't forget, these patterns are deeply ingrained, and have been for a very long time, so it'll take some time to change things. Don't be too anxious.
Quote: Since then, she has told me that she needs to figure out how she can forgive me.
Okay, you're gonna have to fill in some blanks here... I rather doubt your entirely clueless about what you think she's stewing about. I'm not actually sure it even has anything to do with the sex situation, either. As you read more of PM, I think you'll see what I mean.
You've shown a remarkable amount of progress in a very short time. Believe me, I KNOW your motivation... been there, done that. It CAN get better. No promises, but it can.
Quote: How can I get over someone who sleeps in the same bed?
Well, for the moment, let's assume you don't want to get over her, you want things to improve. We'll work on that basis. I do think that, when all is said and done, and you've worked through all the PM and SSM stuff, and you've made really meaningful changes in yourself, and she STILL doesn't step up to the plate, then I think that question will have answered itself...
I'm going to agree with much of what Tim said, especially delving in to the "forgiveness" thing. What has she been holding on to for sooo long? Sounds like that may be a possible key (at least one of them) to obtaining that emotional connection you are needing. It's very hard for a woman (speaking as one) to feel sexual towards her partner when she's holding grudges, anger & resentment inside. At some point she will hopefully find a way to let that go...remember though it will be up to her to do that, you won't be able to do it for her...she'll have to find her own way.
Tony, dude, your letter almost made me cry. You have to figure out what her grudge is and you have to figure out a way to get her to go to the counselor with you.
Man, I can't believe she threw the letter away! That was basically a non-confrontational person's way of slapping you in the face. And I can empathize with you on the birthday thing. One thing a person deserves on their birthday -- AND SHOULDN'T HAVE TO ASK FOR -- is to make love to his/her spouse. I haven't had it on my birthday for YEARS.
Stick around here, pal, and we'll work through this together. She sounds cold to me, but if she loves you, she'll find a way to warm up.
Quote: I wish I didn't love her. I wish I didn't want her. The fact that she doesn't want me makes me sick. I used to think she was the love of my life. How can I get over someone who sleeps in the same bed?
Most of the time I don't feel this way. I was in an apocalyptic mood last night. Sometimes you just feel like pushing the red button and making it all go away.
I feel a little better today. Thanks for the kind words, everyone.
Tony
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
I went to the councilor today. He seems like a nice enough fellow. I broke the ice by reading him the post that I wrote above, and also the letter that I wrote my wife last month. It was surprising to me how hard a time I had reading these letters aloud without choking up with emotion. Hold on to yourself.
An issue that I have with my wife that I didn't mention above is that she won't initiate any kind of physical contact, let alone sex. If we are going on a walk, she will let me hold her hand, but if I don't hold her hand, she won't hold mine. The same goes for hugs and kisses (if she ever again lets my tongue in, I might not take it back out ). I think the idea of initiating contact never occurs to her, although my insecure side thinks I am repulsive to her.
I told her a couple of weeks ago about that I wanted her to kiss me good night before going to bed or rolling over to fall asleep. She started smacking herself in the head and said "I can't do anything right." The next three nights she made a big show of kissing me good night "I'm going to bed now, so I'm going to kiss you good night so you don't get mad." After the third night of this, with some eye rolling thrown in, I got angry and told her not to bother. She told me "Your not going to go pathetic on me are you?" Touché! She still gives me the good night kiss, and her attitude has softened from patronizing to perfunctory. I guess that's progress.
The councilor told me not to expect too much in the way of sex, considering she can barely stand to touch me. It's hard to argue with that: I've been on the bench so long that when I get up to the plate, I should worry about getting to first base rather than hitting home runs. He said we obviously need to get to the bottom of her anger with me. He also said that I should thank her for kissing me even if she wasn't really feeling it, because at least she was making the effort.
Tonight at bed time, I thanked her for kissing me goodnight and she thanked me for thanking her. I also thanked her for telling me that I was being pathetic - I really did need to hear that. I don't want her pity. (It sure seems that I'm looking for pity when you look at all the maudlin crap I've written in this thread . I don't want it from my wife but I'll take it from y'all.).
Finally, I told her that whatever she was angry about, I wanted to hear about it. I especially need to hear about it if it reflects an ongoing pattern of behavior. But even if it is just old stuff that I can't do anything about, I still want to here about it. And I promised her that I would try not to react angry or defensive about her revelations. This is my attempt at differentiation.
Tony
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Happy Birthday Tony and I am truly sorry that it didn't see your wishes come true.
Why, why are people so unkind ??
Your story is intruiging and I can relate to so much of it. In particular the losing weight and feeling good about yourself, I have read many many self help books, (although I think my next one will be PM) including those on weight loss as I too, have a problem in that area. Many of these books say that something in your subconscious is telling you not to lose weight and I have recently discovered what mine is .... What if I lose weight and you are still not interested in ML with me ? OR Why should I lose weight to make you feel like ML with me when others are still interested in being with me ?? Nevertheless, I am working on it.
Your analogy about getting over someone who sleeps in the same bed also rings very true with me .... sometimes I find myself wishing that I didn't have to sleep in the same bed, wishing that the little subconconsious touches weren't there because they make you want them even more.
I'm sorry I can't offer you any advise, but I can congratulate you on giving it every opportunity to work and offering (hopefully) some solice that other people do understand.
Quote: Your story is intruiging and I can relate to so much of it. In particular the losing weight and feeling good about yourself, I have read many many self help books, (although I think my next one will be PM) including those on weight loss as I too, have a problem in that area. Many of these books say that something in your subconscious is telling you not to lose weight and I have recently discovered what mine is .... What if I lose weight and you are still not interested in ML with me ? OR Why should I lose weight to make you feel like ML with me when others are still interested in being with me ?? Nevertheless, I am working on it.
Hey Solid and NelJ,
I had many of the same thoughts as you two regarding the weight issue. If you are truly comfortable with your current weight/physical appearance then don't change. In order to figure out if you are truly comfortable ask yourself if you would be happy with the way you look if you were single and going on a blind date. What would you change? Ask yourself if this change is at all possible. If you would only be happy if every bit of cellulite was removed from your body then you probably need counseling for your poor body image. If you have a gut and you want a flat stomach, then you probably should make a real effort to lose weight and exercise. The reason it is important to feel confident about your appearance is that it is an important part of feeling sexually confident. It is very difficult, if not impossible, to be strong in requesting more sex from your spouse if you aren't sexually confident yourself. Do what you need to do to feel confident.
Quote: What if I lose weight and you are still not interested in ML with me ? OR Why should I lose weight to make you feel like ML with me when others are still interested in being with me ??
These are good questions. The answer to the first one is that your H will be forced to face his own sexual problems head on when he no longer can blame his lack of desire on your appearance. The first answer to the second question is that you shouldn't worry about who in particular finds you sexually attractive as long as you TRULY believe you are sexually attactive. The second answer to the second question is that maybe liking slender women is TRULY a sexual preference for your H over which he has limited control. You may think this is a lame preference, but you might want to consider if trying to respect his preference in this regard would be worth it. In my case, I asked myself if I was willing to trade cookies for sex and the answer was "yes!". Trying to meet your spouse's preferences in this way also proves to them that you are serious in your desire to improve things sexually and puts them on alert to the possibility that others might find you attractive. In my sich, I found that telling my H that I was going to lose some weight in order to improve our sex life and then following through was enough to improve things quite a bit.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
). I think the idea of initiating contact never occurs to her, although my insecure side thinks I am repulsive to her.
. I don't want it from my wife but I'll take it from y'all.).