Welcome m_i_t! You've come to the right place. Ideas flow rapidly around here, so be prepared.
Quote: There are lots of other issues in our marriage, but she is not interested in working on them. As far as she's concerned, there is no problem.
Ohh boy, that sounds like my W. Is there a school out there that teaches this line of thinking??
Have you asked her to assume responsibility for these "other issues?" I have a feeling that, if you have, it only pissed her off. Why? Because "it's your problem" and "it's all about you" and such. I've heard these things over and over and over again, and no matter how many times my W says it, I don't believe it.
I've learned to make statements about ME - how I feel, or what I want, or how I see things. I can change ME and how I attempt to process things, and I know that I can't change my W. I am not trying to give my W answers to her "so what can I do about it" questions, preferring to tell her that I really can't give her an answer... that she'll have to come up with the answer on her own. After many months of this type of talk, I think my W will realize that "there are lots of other issues in our marriage."
Quote: What do I do...??? I am afraid of the reaction.
My C said that I was afraid of my W, and I didn't see it until recently. Now, I speak up when I have something to say about how I'm feeling or I see something that we need to work on in our M, rather than letting it drop or dealing with it later "when there's time." What changed? Well, I realized that my W doesn't HAVE to like me or agree with me about everything in life. I am being honest with her and telling her how I feel and what I want. That's my job... and it fosters communication. She can yell at me if she needs to, and we can discuss things in a heated argument if need be... but it's communication. I know you wrote that you're tired of arguments. I think you will see that arguments turn to discussions if diffused and handled well.
Quote: She wants to have an intimate relationship, but.. but... but... I've called her on all the excuses too... they are usually irrelevant, untrue, or the other side of a coin that she is in control of (i.e., I haven't had time, however, I've come up with 15 new hobbies to fill my time with recently; I do want to talk...o.k., now it is a commercial break, how are you?; etc. etc)
Do not expect her to do something just because YOU think it's a good idea... her hobbies will win almost every time (Example: I gave my W the SSM book a month ago - and she's up to page 50. Instead, she crochets every night while we watch TV.) What I *do* recommend is that you turn off the TV (and if you feel like being nice, record whatever program she's watching so she can catch it later). Turn off the distractions and you'll be left with what? Each other! Don't attack her... DO make statements about how you see things and what you want. Don't attempt to make things easy for her... DO tell her that she needs to come up with answers on her own. This is written from experience.
Quote: Long story short, I am told that I am the problem, either because I think that there is a problem when there really isn't, or because I am the root cause of all the problems that she will admit...no matter how illogical.
So she admits that there are problems? Do you have a list? Can you post it for us?
Quote: Anita wrote: You know...I think we've all been told that we're the problem and believe it or not...you are part of the problem. You're going to learn this as you read more of these posts, read the books that have been recommended and then begin trying the different approaches. We so often approach our spouses in ways we feel are completely reasonable, loving, encouraging etc...but to our spouse on the other side of the coin/problem we are doing nothing but pressuring, demanding, finding faults in them and insisting that they change when they don't think they need to. I used to think I was being so loving in the way I handled the situation with my LDH but my approach kept getting me further and further from a solution.
Amen. I know I'm part of the problem, but I've admitted that. I am working on my own version of the 12-Step program. You can do it too, sir. Good luck.
Quote: I know I'm part of the problem, but I've admitted that. I am working on my own version of the 12-Step program.
Chris, I'm so glad to hear you say that...for me one of the most difficult things I had to do was to really take a good look at myself and recognize that I was a part of the problem. It's really hard to see that when you think/feel that all you are doing is being encouraging/loving.
Looks like we're all in this together...so-to-speak :-)
I know I'm PART of the problem, that's not the same thing as BEING the problem. My C has said that one of my problems historically and now is that I am silent. I'm trying not to be, but I can't compete in this arena! That's why DOING something is so much to be preferred to SAYING anything. You know?
Actually...yes, I can relate. I've really had to learn to speak up...it's one of my downfalls too. It's no fun dealing with a problem like this as a formerly very shy person. My LDH has no idea what it's like for me to screw up my courage to discuss sex with him...much less be the only one initiating it...and then be shut down flat, rejected...or worse yet...ignored. I completely understand...unfortunately. However...you are going to have to learn to speak up with her as uncomfortable as it is...don't just rely on actions. I think you'll find that the more you do it, the less uncomfortable it will become with time (I have a feeling your counselor may have already told you this :-) ). One of the mistakes I've historically made with my H is to assume he will understand my intention when I "show" him I love him or want him...I could literally hear the "whoosh" as he completely missed the meaning behind my actions...and I thought I was being obvious. It's not that he's completely clueless or anything like that (he's actually quite intelligent), we just simply communicate very differently. Anyway...I'm glad to hear you are in counseling, I am too...it really helps me to have that outlet paired up with these message boards.
Also...I hope you didn't think I was saying you were the problem...that wasn't my intent at all. It's just that too many people refuse to recognize that they too are a part of the problem...glad to see you do acknowledge that. That's a good beginning to getting things on the right track!
No, I know that's not what you meant. Just wanted to be clear, I know I'm part of the problem. It's my spouse that wants us to believe that I'm all of the problem. Makes it hard to admit resp. for what I know is mine, cause it is not a very even playing field, if you know what I mean.
Oh yeah...I know what you mean. My H always tries to bring our arguments around to who is right and who is wrong...I always tell him it's not about right and wrong or finding fault...most of the time I respond to his "Well who's right?!" question with "neither of us, it's just a difference we're having."...he never knows how to respond to that. Works pretty well for me. I find for us it sort of takes the "fight" out of the fight we were having...he finds it hard to fight with me, when I'm not fighting back...merely making level-headed statements :-)
You need to be direct and obvious as a ball peen hammer upside the head. Don't "hint around" and think that your spouse will catch on... 'cause that ain't happening. I did that hint thing for months, and I never got anywhere. You do need to speak up, even if you know that it might end up in an argument.
Quote: GEL wrote: Oh yeah...I know what you mean. My H always tries to bring our arguments around to who is right and who is wrong...I always tell him it's not about right and wrong or finding fault...most of the time I respond to his "Well who's right?!" question with "neither of us, it's just a difference we're having."...he never knows how to respond to that.
Funny, I have similar discussions with my W, and diffusing the situation with careful explanations is a good tactic. It seems that the "spouse in question" always needs to be right, doesn't it? How about taking responsibility for 50% of "it" (whatever it is) and realizing that nothing will be resolved if we worry about right and wrong?
Welcome. I used to bring up all kinds of issues involving sex right at bedtime, and she had the, totally plausible, excuse that she was tired. So I've been trying to train her to talk with me during the day or evening, preferably away from the kids and the house. Most of the time, we talk about things other than our R (lots of times I just listen) but at least I can sometimes bring up my issues while she is awake and able to consider them. Though I'd love to have a weekly sex night, I consider it progress to have gotten a fairly regular date night. I'm a big believer in taking baby steps toward the goal of winning the marathon.
