You nailed it, you're right. Yes I need the "interest" from her to give it more meaning. She was pretty nice about it instead of sarcastic which is an improvement. I don't know I'll pass on the offer tonight unless the seed I planted today grows into something else. But in reality, I just don't care that much right now. I would rather keep vigilant about the way she interacts with me by calling b.s. on her sarcasm and disrespect.
Folks, when I was single between my 2nd and 3rd year of college, I was so preoccupied with trying to find dates and getting some sex that I probably looked like a desperate dork (though I did ok). That is the part of me that I want to change and feel like I have changed. The ultimate test of becoming differentiated is when I can truly live without sex for an extended period of time. Granted, their won't be any EC to my W and I probably be in damn good shape from all the riding I'll be doing. I just keep thinking that I need to start learning to walk on my emotional legs as if I were single and alone because (here's my massive crucible folks) the only time I really didn't like myself was when I was single. There it is folks...my admission. I now admit that I have an irrational need for someone in my life. Fear of being alone is what fueled me being so non-confrontational in the past. I've gotten over lots of that now. Now I need to venture out in the water without a life preserver. I can now recognize when my need to be desired is for "other-validation" and I ignore that need. I can now recognize when my need for sex is out of plain ol' horniness and take care of it myself. I can now recognize the need for sex due to anxiety and I go ride my bike. And finally, the need for sex to boost my EC is completely dependent upon how much I really want to boost my EC. Lately, it's not much. I want to use this opportunity to grow some more. I'm sorry if this is a "downer" for you folks trying so hard to boost your sex life up. If any of my progress will give you hope, I will say that we've ML / did sexual things over 20 times in the past 6 months - significant improvement over the quarterly average of the past 10 years.
Geez...who knows? Maybe I'm just nuts. Maybe my W will feel my lack of EC this time. Who knows. I'm pretty clueless right now.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: How do you make someone feel something they don't? Is it enough if they fake the passion? But really - its not that hard for us to know to know if they are faking it.
I agree that if someone is in an unusual hormonal state, it would be hard to sexually arouse them. In that sich, they should take some responsibility for correcting the hormonal imbalance, unless they know it will be temporary, like in your breastfeeding example.In my sich and most other's on this board, our spouse's hormonal levels are normal.
The question I ask myself is what can I do to inspire passion in my H? I think a lot of the suggestions in SSM and PM are useful because they try to answer this question. The root of the word passion means suffering, as in The Passion of the Christ and it is clear why this word has come to mean intense sexual longing. Intense sexual longing is not an altogether pleasant feeling. Who knows this better than the HD half of a SSM? Maybe the LD half of the SSM knows it better. Maybe it feels safer to be numb rather than to risk the pain of passion, even if this means missing out on the pleasure also. If the HD partner changes, either by doing a 180 or becoming more differentiated or putting the marriage on the line, the LD partner is forced out of their safe hiding place. The status quo has been disturbed and there are possibilities for pain all around. The LD partner freaks out and demands the return of safety. The HD partner has to remain strong and insist that it is better to risk pain than to forgo pleasure.
If I have to look super sexy, talk boldly about my sexual needs and threaten to leave in order to get my H to realize that there are things more painful than letting himself feel passion for his wife, then that's what I'm going to do. If being nice and always available makes my H feel numb and annoyed, then I will be more selfish and withholding. I will remain honest because I will make it clear that I am doing these things to inspire his passion. He then has the choice to transcend his need to seek passion only in order to escape emotional pain and he will be able to meet me in a mature relationship.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
That was probably your best post ever. Great theory. It made me re-think my previous post. But I think I need to use this time to focus on this old issue of mine and really get my head into a place where I truly could put it all on the line. Maybe by the time I do that, I won't need to.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Tonight was weird. My W, in the middle of a show, turned the volume down and asked "how was your day". This was a first. It proves that she IS listening to me in previous convos. It also means she willing to try to to keep my EC up. This also included her rubbing my back etc. It was way to late to attempt any "play" and considering her response earlier today, I just didn't feel like trying to start anything.
When I tucked her into bed, she said "you seem sleepy" me: "no..i'm actually kind of wired up". w: "are you sure you're ok...you seem agitated". m: "no..seriously...I'm fine..godnight ILY". So she knows I'm acting funny. I really have no idea what I'm doing right now. I no interest in being physical with her. If she tried to seduce me, then it would be a completely different story. Wait...I know exactly what I'm doing! I'm working on desire. Ok...I get it.
So I guess the exercise is to get myself in a happy frame of mind despite a missing EC. This is what I would do if I were single. The trouble with this exercise is that "pretending to be single" makes it hard acknowledge the existence of your spouse because you are fighting the natural, habitual pull towards them.
Oh man...I'm confused. I don't want to go back to a schedule but I don't want to lose the EC and/or stop working on this issue.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: So I guess the exercise is to get myself in a happy frame of mind despite a missing EC. This is what I would do if I were single. The trouble with this exercise is that "pretending to be single" makes it hard acknowledge the existence of your spouse because you are fighting the natural, habitual pull towards them.
Don't feel too bad. This is hard to do even if you're someone like me who kind of likes the idea of being single. The big difference in the situation is that when you are single you aren't "forced" to be celibate. Even if the likelihood of getting laid on any given Saturday night is pretty slim, you can at least freely fantasize on the possibilities. Of course, IMO Schnarch would argue that you aren't "forced" to be celibate on any given Saturday night either. You can choose, like the example in the book, to tell your spouse "I really want to get laid tonight. Do you want to join me or should I go out to the bar?". Unfortunately, nobody on this board has the kind of giant gonads necessary to say anything half as bold as that.(Well, maybe NopKins but he's already getting it everyday,so he doesn't have to )
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: The ultimate test of becoming differentiated is when I can truly live without sex for an extended period of time.
Dave, does Schnarch say this? It doesn't sound right to me. Even in light of your fear of being alone, it STILL doesn't sound right. So you need sex... Does that make you fused and in need of learning how to live without it?
I really don't think your requests from your wife are all that fused or in need of tweaking. Sex a couple times a week, with both of you initiating, and if she turns you down it needs to be done in a way that does not make you feel foolish. Sounds good to me!
As far as maintaining the EC, here is what I personally think: You can have an EC with her, it just won't be strong. It won't be that "high as a kite" EC that we all know and love. It will be a downsized version of it..more of a brother and sister EC. This is what happens when you have an HD person who goes for a certain period (defined by them, we are all different) without sex. It occurred to me last night that I was trying to have a Lover EC with a person who had declined being my lover since last Friday. Why would I be surprised that this was hard to achieve? However!, it was quite easy to have an EC that was different but nice. It was not as strong and close feeling but it was good nonetheless. It was more of a best friend feeling but it was still an EC. I think I have been too caught up in zeroing in on THE connection that feels the best to me and ignoring the others because, truly, they are pale in comparison--both to myself and to H, paradoxically! (that is, if he thinks the sex EC rocks then why not go after it more often??)
Anyhoo, I think that a truly differentiated person would say, This is how I am and I will attempt to keep the EC going despite the status of my sex life but you, partner, must understand that there is a good chance that I will not feel as close to you after X amount of days go by with no activity, but please be assured that I love you and enjoy your company even though my connection to you will be lessened, on my end.
Cheers friend and don't beat yourself up too badly for hating being single. Some people are just charged and energized by intimate contact with others.
I really want to get laid tonight. Do you want to join me or should I go out to the bar?"
Ha...I've considered saying this but 1. my doesn't require that much coercion to ML and 2. I can predict her reaction...she would angrily drop her pants and say ok...come on". BUT, on the other side of that equation, I could then say "no thank you...I want to have someone approach me with real (or somewhat liquid assisted) desire". Hmmm....I've got to think about that one.
What's really sucks in my situation is that my W IS willing...probably whenever I want. But she's made it 100% "my deal"...she won't meet me half way. Her initiations are never about her...it's about taking care of my needs which, while still a "giving" gesture, sucks!
Folks, can you see how pathetic this is. It's only been 1 week and I'm slipping into "nutty land". Sure, I could ask her for an HJBJ tonight along with fantasy talk and have a pretty good time but it's just easier to take care of myself.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
AntlerD wrote: ---------------- Folks, can you see how pathetic this is. It's only been 1 week and I'm slipping into "nutty land". Sure, I could ask her for an HJBJ tonight along with fantasy talk and have a pretty good time but it's just easier to take care of myself. ----------------
Dave.
Lovingly hug your wife, kiss her cheek and nuzzle her neck. Do this at least 5 times today, then make love to her tonight. Nothing fancy, just love her while you do it. Hold her hand and talk to her afterward. Grab a towel and clean her up.
Repeat the above scenario three times in the next seven days.
Repeat the above scenario three weeks in a row. Watch your emotional connection grow. Watch your performance anxiety go away.
Don't believe me, give it a try. What could you possibly have to lose?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Thanks NOP. This is an interesting quote. Typically I associate performance anxiety with men who are "small" or not confident in their LM skills. I'm confident in my skills (and size) when we get started but I'm lacking confidence in my non-physical approach.
Man, that's a hard assignment because I will be having to fight the unenthusiastic response. Do you think I should tell her that I'm planning on a 3 week "experiment" where I will be initiating that often? I would love to not have to say "I would like to go to bed with you" each time...I would like it to appear a little more spontaneous.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Dave said: ------------------ Do you think I should tell her that I'm planning on a 3 week "experiment" where I will be initiating that often? ------------------
I wouldn't.
From your posts, it appears that she is willing to meet you needs, without grimacing, Find out what the two of you are made of. Don't get mad if it doesn't go well, remember, the idea is to get used to being together.
Performance anxiety is not limited to the lesser endowed, there is plenty of inexperience at multiple levels to fuel the problem. Even with my background, I am sure it would be difficult for me to play in a group again. I am out of practice performing for a crowd (and I prefer to stay that way). The melty man still tries to visit me on occasion, the only difference is practice makes perfect, so I can make him go away.
The goal of the exercise is to create intimacy with your spouse. You do this by practicing in a more relaxed environment.
Simply put - YOU WILL NEVER BE A GREAT LOVER IF YOU DON'T PRACTICE - This is true for all of us.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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