Quote: Simply put - YOU WILL NEVER BE A GREAT LOVER IF YOU DON'T PRACTICE - This is true for all of us.
I know this to be a great source of my performance anxiety. Each time we get together, it's (1) been a long time since the last time we got together and (2) a probability that it will be a long time before we get together again. So, my "performance" suffers because of sensory overload. Sometimes it helps if I "relieve some pressure" before the event, but, of course, you don't always have that opportunity. No wonder she doesn't want to ML with me.
Hairdog - going through the "poor little ol' me" thoughts and alternatively looking forward to and dreading this weekend, when we will be alone together at a B and B.
All I can tell you is that you need to come right out and talk to her about this.
"Wife, what is it going to take for you and I to have sex on a regular basis?"
You need an answer.
If the answer involves changes that you can make, then make them. If there is no reasonable way to work this out, then don't be buying any new houses!
I bet that you two can come together on this, but it is going to require BOTH of you to soften your hearts toward each other. You simply can't hold on to every grievance you both have with each other. You might as well end the relationship otherwise, because it is as good as dead anyway.
I want to see HD with an ear to ear grin and wife all aglow and radiant from the love you two share.
I suspect that your ex is playing no small role in the way your wife feels toward you.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Tough night last night and it's looking like a bad day today. I'm not sure if this is a normal backslide or what. I'm hopeful that it is.
Folks, don't read this an example of the right way to handle things...we shouldn't be having this many discussions...
Anyway, we tried to be intimate last night and I could relax. It's still my W's P and I knew there would be nothing for her but I needed to be close. She tried to help me in a manual way and I tried to help myself at the same time. I just couldn't clear my head. She picked up on it and asked about it and I tried to explain everything. I explained the connection of the EC to physical activity and the leaky-tire metaphor, etc. I also said that, because it's my EC, then it's my responsibility do whatever it is to maintain it whether that means initiate sex, take her on a date, or turn off the TV some night and just talk. But I also said that I was having such a hard time with initiation that it almost feels easier to not want the EC and to just retreat back into my own world.
I guess I didn't explain things correctly because she said "I know what the problem....you don't love me". Ugh!!!! But I kept my cool and instead of a panicky "oh yes I do!", I asked "well, what's your definition of love?" She said "it's layers upon layers of enjoying each other's company, being friends, respecting, having desire and sharing affection...". Call me capatin a-hole (the following is probably very bad form), but I stopped her and said..."wow...then according to your definition, do you understand why *I* don't feel loved? You use sarcastically disrespect me your desire isn't exactly stellar". She started crying and I felt like a complete tool. I had to reassure her that I did love her and it was the reason I was going through the pain of this.
Anyway, she kept saying things like..."but we've been together so much lately...I can understand you saying this last year, but now? especially after last Thursday where we naturally came together?" I replied that I would probably feel much different if we had 20 "thursday nights" under our belt.
One of the interesting things we discussed was "fusion-talk". This topic came up because I heard myself say "I'm doing all this work, toil and heartache to make things better but I don't feel like you are...um..a...I...ooops...wow, I just illustrated my fusion". Anyway, I had to explain that I'm catching her "fusion-talk" when she says things like "Why would you ask xxxx when you should know that I yyyyyy".
She also told me that the things I was telling her were sabotaging my chances of having what I want. Anyway, it got too late, and I was realizing that this was a stupid cycle. I realized that I was repeating something that happened last week...I cannot be physically intimate until I'm at least semi-emotionally connected. It takes quality time and conversation to do that. But this is a crappy type of convo to boost the EC. Man...what a backslide. This is silly.
At one point she said "you are spinning out of control...you have a great life, and family that loves you so much. You are so fortunate". I had to reply "I agree with that but their is one painful flaw that's taking the fun out of it". I guess that was the wrong thing to say because she acted like I punched her in the gut with that. Like operating heavy equipment, maybe I shouldn't have convos when I'm tired. Who knows though. A part of me feels like I was being manipulated too because she seems to "paint" a much prettier picture of reality when under pressure like this. You should have heard her in the C session the first day (a couple months ago). She was totally gushing on me to the C about how great I am. Oh well.
We discussed using the situation to work on one-selves but I realized that I shouldn't be concerned with whether she is growing or not. I let her know that *I* was and in what ways. I did, inappropriately ask "are you feeling like your 'desire' is improving or feeling at least a little more natural horniness"...and she said "yes".
I finally apologized for sharing "bad feelings" and asked her to have patience with me.
I hope I've characterized the problem corrctly. I need some physical activity to raise the EC, but I'm unable to be comfortable with physical activity when my EC is low -catch 22. So it's a cycle that has to be broken with something else to raise the EC. Talk seems to do it. I did share NOP's idea of increasing the frequency to 3x week for 3 weeks and to see how that would go. I also said that the closer to our session last Thurs, the better so I don't feel like I'm asking.
I think this is a typical part of the evolution. A lot less intelligent people than me (if I do say so myself ) have worked things out. I'm still hopeful.
- later.
Dave (who's got road rash from such a big backslide today).
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
I did mention to her that I intend to call B.S. every time she says something disrespectful to me. After replying to wildebube about "confrontation", I thought it be best to take my own advice.
I told her the connection between "being disrespectful" and how it makes you disrespect yourself in the process and that it will kill the passion if you don't stand up for yourself.
Oh well....from the wide range of things I've experienced this year, I'm no longer surprised by the way I feel.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Things have calmed down tremendously. We watched a movie together and stayed up late. It's too soon to try to be physical after last night. Apparently, I did a pretty bad number on her and she was feeling sad all day. It's one thing to HOM and be calm and loving when talking...but it doesn't take the sting out if what you are saying hurts. She really misinterpreted the convo last night and I explained it again. What's funny about her "you don't love me" statement was that the last 6 months have had a series of "ignitions" which, if averaged, would make this a more loving year than the past 10 combined.
Also, this afternoon, I made an appointment with a new C for monday. She got very excited when I mentioned I was a Schnarch-head. She said that he is her favorite. But my last C said the same thing. I want to see her to make sure that I haven't done a number on myself with the way I'm thinking about things. My ideas have been fueled by past success but I'm getting into unfamiliar territory now. My anxiety over initiating is way too extreme right now. I shouldn't be feeling this way.
Unfortunately, this C is out of network and it's going to cost me some serious cash. I don't know how long I will be able to go to her before I would need to switch to someone on my plan. When talking with her, I referred to some incorrect info on her website and she expressed her disappointment with her webmaster. Maybe I can barter services with her. First I need to see if I actually like her. This will be interesting. W agreed to go with me but is not happy about having to rehash everything again.
Things are good. She gave some great kisses tonight and I could feel myself breaking it off first. I'll give an update later.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
I think you need to pay attention to NOPkins advice to you. I think you are experiencing performance anxiety of some sort... initiating sex with your wife, and using the excuse that you don't feel an EC with her to avoid it is something you might want to seriously examine.
It sounds like you have a very serious fear of rejection... and if you can guilt your wife into initiating more, or showing more passion and desire while having sex 3x per week for the next 3 weeks, then that completely takes the pressure off of you because the two of you have made 'an agreement.' You've conned her into being a certain way so that you don't have to risk facing your own fears.
It sounds to me like that whole haywire conversation you had the other night was an 'emotional meltdown' in Dave land, and you are holding her hostage by saying 'she didn't really understand what I meant.' What about what she heard, man? Have you put yourself in her shoes and experienced for yourself what it might have been like to be on the receiving end of your emotional toxins?
What NOPkins in suggesting to you is a way for you to slowly build back your confidence. So she might not become all gooey and melty when you hug her and kiss her neck. But it is a fairly innocuous way for you to reach out to your wife and offer intimacy without going for the whole enchilada. And you do this FIVE times a day. It's for YOU, not necessarily for her... although I bet she will benefit from it when she realizes what you are doing.
I'm glad to hear you found another C... but it sounds to me like you have already created an exit strategy for yourself if she doesn't pass 'the Dave test.' It's a good one, too. She's not covered under your insurance and it would cost you a pretty penny. Counseling takes time, Dave. You aren't always fixed in five sessions, or six months. Sometimes it takes a little longer. And it can be pretty damn painful, too.
I feel for you, guy, I really do. There is some serious pain below your surface and what could be a bit daunting for you is that you've just realized there is more to the ice berg than what you thought. After all, look at how far you've come on your own? The tough part of this is, however, that until you spend some serious time with a professional C who won't let you off the hook (like your wife might because she loves you), you won't know if you've really cleared your closet of the cob webs and skeletons, or if you've just created a more complex method of avoiding your own issues, pain and fear.
That all probably sounds pretty harsh. It's just my opinion, and I'm not saying I'm right. Regardless, I'm pulling for you, guy. Hang in there. This sh!t is tough, especially when you enter the 'facing personal demons' realm.
That's a great characterization and you clarified what it was that I wanted to work on. All along this thread, I was talking about trying to learn to maintain an EC w/o sex, but in reality...it about my fear of rejection. This is weird because I knew I needed to get her off the schedule and off the hook but I wasn't exactly certain why I felt I needed to do it. Your post really clarified it. Hmmm. I'm wondering if I should just find a good therapist in my network for me and focus on this one issue. Sure I've been guilty of other-validation before along with some anxiety and maybe some anger issues, but I think the fear of rejection thing is huge. I need to think about this for a while.
I *did* empathize with what I was saying to her and could relate to how she felt. It took a while to replay my tired rantings but I see things from her perspective. I truly wasn't trying to manipulate anything and my suggestion that 3x...well, ok, maybe, yes...you are right. I tried to put a system in place to protect me. Geez. This is scary. My god...how long will it take to fix an issue like this? This could be some deep, old thing. Maybe even going back to the fact that I was adopted at birth. Oh brother.
Thanks Corri.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
whoa...I just thought of something and I'm not sure if you meant it this way.
My EC dropping after a few days is really *real*. It's never been a point for manipulation. But the fact that I shared these feelings might actually be. Does that make sense? I very desperately want her to somehow get a little more motivated to meet me half-way. Though maybe her willingness to say yes (in even crappy way) is "meeting me half way". Actually, when I called her on her crappy response a cpl weeks ago, she said "hey...I'm meeting you half way". So in her mind she is.
So sure, I love Schnarchs idea of letting a R work on you and yes, this situation is clarifying my personal issues in a big way. These days, my world seems to be full of depth and drama. But geez, sometimes instead of always eating a heavy meal, it's nice to have a light salad. If there was a lot less sarcasm, eye-roll and a little more respect for my feelings, then I wouldn't have the (sarc) lovely fortune of having a major personal issue to overcome. Don't respond to this...I know the truth, I just want to bitch a little.
I totally agree with NOP's idea and the rationale. I'm really taking it slowly. I started spending more time with her the day after the convo and am being "gently" affectionate. I haven't initiated yet. This felt like such a big backslide for me, that I need to take my time before initiating LM and just take it slow and steady with affection and closeness. Yah...my confidence is low right now and I need to build it back up.
Quote:
Have you put yourself in her shoes and experienced for yourself what it might have been like to be on the receiving end of your emotional toxins?
Oh yah. And I apologized for it. It is so clear now what my agenda was. 1. quality time (seriously...as sadistic as that sounds, it's true). 2. to do what Corri said...try to avoid facing potential rejection. Crap this hurts so much...she has nothing to with except hold the mirror up. I guess a C will be good. I would love to share this insight with my W, but it would do nothing but upset her because it's not *her* holding the mirror...it's her little LD demon which she's not happy acknowledging.
Time for some sleep. The day after the convo, I woke up with an inflamed cyst right above my spine between my shoulders. I went to the dermatologist today and he actually cut the freakin' thing out and sewed it up...right in the exam room!! Now I've got burning pain in my back which will be somewhat irritated by the hydration backpack I'll be wearing when I guide a group on a 5 hour mountainbike ride tomorrow morning. Ugh...how can I have such a high tolerance for physical pain yet be so damn wimpy sometimes about emotional pain?
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
