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Hey NOP, that was really a great way to put it. It's one of the few posts that I would consider sharing with her. The other night during our convo, I used the example in terms of an employee. But a child is a much easier example.

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I am glad my wife has a heart for the game. I believe that yours does as well.

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I know she has a heart for staying on the team but I just haven't gotten the sense that she's doing anything other than showing up for practice.

The other night, she admitted that she rarely gets *those* feelings until we get started and that there hasn't been a long enough break between sessions lately for her to come to me with those feelings. I've considered suspending my efforts and letting her know that the next time we ML should be according to her "feelings". I wonder if we have been in this process long enough for me to let go of the "process" for a while. Or would she simply fall into her comfort zone and require me, in 3-4 weeks to start over again? I mean, I think she has heard my desires, my needs, etc. Maybe I should just shut up now and see what happens. Maybe she is like my D6 who did much better on her bike when I wasn't watching. My W said that our frequency is much more than she "feels" that she needs but when I asked what her frequency was, she couldn't answer.

Does anyone think this would be a good approach?
Fire metaphor....It's sort of like looking at a budding flame and after stoking it, stepping back to watch and see if it slowly grows. But as we all have experienced, when the flame goes out, it takes another match (extra effort) to re-ignite it. But then again, the first burn has dried the wood and made it more easy to ignite.

It would be so awesome to leave her alone and see her initiate on her own with motivation other than convo-avoidance. Then see her try to increase the frequency on her own.

I don't know. Instead of cursing the log that won't ignite, maybe I should just walk away from it for a while (not meaning leave...just stop pressuring her).

Any ideas about this?

Dave,
If she doesn't "get going" until after you start, then I can certainly see how that would prevent her from pulling off a killer initiation. She can, however, do better than what she's done lately right!

Here is my question for you: Are you proficient at getting her going, once you start? Do you know her preferences? Does she?

If she has trouble getting started, then it might benefit the both of you to move that along in a way that really speaks to her.

I truly do empathize with my H for being in a position where he is expected to deliver the goods twice per week, but less natural desire than that..it leaves him in a position of either faking his desire (which he does quite frequently) or borrowing mine (which he attempts to do frequently). It is my hope that I can help with this process by getting him in the mood in the way that HE suggested so that his desire won't be either faked or borrowed.

just some thoughts for ya..
HP

Re: the sports analogy, only in Little League does everybody get to play. (We don't want to discourage the little darlings, so everyone's effort is good enough. It's not about winning, so everyone gets an equal chance.) As you get older, only the better players make the team.

It's great to give our S "Little League" encouragement. But eventually it takes more than just WANTING to play. Higher levels of play require the maturity of skills and abilities. And the player who wants to CONTINUE to play does the work (practice, gain more knowledge, seek help from others) to avoid being cut by the coach.

Mike - PM, sports style

You know I can't resist an analogy. I think my H is only playing ball because he doesn't want to disappoint his father who loves the game. He's good at the game and he's making an effort to show up for batting practice, but unfortunately chess club meets at the same time and he's really much more interested in that.

MM wrote:
He's good at the game and he's making an effort to show up for batting practice, but unfortunately chess club meets at the same time and he's really much more interested in that.
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Ahhhh, but he signed up to play ball. Now he has to decide whether he's going to live up to his comittment even though the coach calls practice more often than he'd prefer. Blaming the coach for calling practice is not a legitimate excuse for not showing up. (His father would tell him to "suck it up" and go.)

Mike - ex-sports nut...now just nuts

honey,

She gets really into it about every 2-3 three times, but when she's not into it, she won't let me touch her below the belly button. It's strictly intercourse and/or her giving me bj/hj. When I can go down, I usually do a pretty darn good job (if I may say so myself). I have a few techniques combining oral and manual that really get her going but every 5th time, she can actually O from missionary sex...but it's got to be acrobatic, athletic, and downright hardcore to have that happen. She then has an explosive O, usually digs her fingernails into me as she pushes me away from her. This because she doesn't want to be touched for about 10 minutes. Then she usually cuddles up and takes care of me with her hands.

honeypot,

I will ask her again what would help get her going so that the sex isn't so unidirectional. But I might save this topic for a while. I've thrown so many crucible-inducing questions at her that I think she's cooked down to the bone these days. She *knows* there is something she needs to be working on...whether it be her libido, assertiveness, energy, or passion. I should probably shut up for a while.

I want to clarify something. When I mean she won't let me touch her, I mean that she takes a position where she does not want to let me even try to arouse her. She says that the sex does feel good to her despite the fact that she doesn't O. It's weird, but it's not my problem.

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When I mean she won't let me touch her, I mean that she takes a position where she does not want to let me even try to arouse her.

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If you were to ask HD me what "gets me going". I wouldn't think to mention direct clitoral or vaginal stimulation. That's what I want once I'm in 3rd gear. It's possible the reason your wife doesn't want you to touch below the belly button is because she knows her chain is going to fall off if you switch to that gear before she's up to speed. Because I'm HD, I am frequently in 3rd gear before my H even makes a move, but sometimes I start from neutral and in that sich, I need sexy talk, kissing, breast stimulation, indirect clitoral stimulation or teasing moves from my H OR I can get myself to 3rd by "doing" or teasing my H OR I can get myself to 3rd by "doing" myself and my H simultaneously up to a point. To put it crudely, I don't really want clitoral or vaginal stimulation to orgasm unless I'm already hot and wet. I think what HP was getting at is you should try to figure out what kind of foreplay gets your wife aroused, not what kind of sexual action is most likely to lead to orgasm for her. The point I'm making is that your wife either needs to work on figuring out what exactly you can do to get her aroused or she needs to work on being able to tell you if she already knows and she needs to take some responsibility for self arousal either through fantasy, playing with your body or playing with her own body in your presence.

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She says that the sex does feel good to her despite the fact that she doesn't O.

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It is entirely possible for a woman to enjoy having sex in the missionary or other positions even if she isn't very aroused as long as there is enough lubrication because it's kind of like getting an internal massage. If I had a very HDH, I might be too lazy to concentrate on vaginal orgasm sometimes so I would just relax and enjoy the feeling of being f*cked.