I don't know why but since I started this whole PM project my HD has dwindled. I seem to be more interested in the psychological process than the act itself. Hopefully I'll get back to "normal" but maybe it is better being able to accept 3x per month than being frustrated 3x per week. SD
Quote: ...since I started this whole PM project my HD has dwindled.
Don't worry, SD... it'll come back. You just have a different focus for the time being. That is normal and expected. The key is for you and W to create, nurture and sustain an emotional connection, then follow that to see what, when, where, how and how often you'll do...
You’ve just raised another issue that I’ve been wondering about. The C asked me how often I wanted to ML – not right now, but as an ideal. My answer to her was that I honestly didn’t know. My feeling was that two or three times a week sounded about right, but I felt that I wasn’t in a position to give a good answer right then. Right now it’s more like every day.
I told her that when there is no sex the pressure builds up like a head of steam. The pressure is always there and I always want sex. Getting my typical every-six-months sex is like bleeding off a little of the pressure, but still keeping the needle in the red. Since the pressure has never been down to normal, I don’t know what it would take to maintain that level if and when I do get there. FWIW, the C thought that was a good answer. She said that it showed that I was thinking about it and trying to set reasonable goals. She also said that she thought two or three times a week was a reasonable target.
So what do you HD people who have had some success with your SL think about this? Is it normal for your perceived level of D to decrease as you increase your frequency, or does it stay the same? Or is there really a lot of truth to the saying that the more you do it, the more you want to do it?
bube, I completely agree with you. When you're getting none you think you want it every day but in reality as each day passes that is just another day that you wanted it. One way to look at it is that you have the opportunity for unlimited sex with yourself but I bet you don't mb every day. If say, you mb 2 or 3 times a week then that is probably your natural rhythm and with a suitable HD woman that would keep you the happiest man alive. My W has agreed to try to ML every Friday but I have told her that I would like us to work towards Tuesdays too as that fits in better with my rhythm (she being ND has no rhythm of her own). She was absolutely horrified and squashed me flat. However I will return to that line of persuasion soon because there is a long time between Fridays especially as most of them seem to co-incide with other events that make ML "inconvenient". SD
It was an interesting phenomena. Our frequency last calendar year was 4 times. When I started this whole process, I was horny to the point of wackiness. Other members on this board remember how completely bizzare my posts were because I was thinking that I wanted swinging, porn-star, kinky, crazy sex 2-3 times a day etc. It was really due to my need to "relax" my anxieties about other things in my life and for the treacherous mistake of needing validation. PM solved the anxiety thing over night and I no longer allowed myself to want sex unless it was to "connect" emotionally with my W. This "logic" dropped my needs down to a reasonable number of 2 times per week. When we started doing it regularly, I realized that I didn't really want it even that much. My motivation to maintain the frequency was more about "training the habit" in my W. But the reality is that 2-3 times seems to be the right number for me.
Note that the first convo I had with my W after reading SSM, I told her that 2x per month would be the bare minimum but later revised it to 2x week. That was a mistake because she felt like I was moving the target. At the time 2x per month sounded huge! 24x / year versus 4.
We have been having spurts of 2x week and even a 3fer once. But looking at the numbers, we've only ML about 13x since Feb but have had quite a few sessions of manual stuff in between.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: Note that the first convo I had with my W after reading SSM, I told her that 2x per month would be the bare minimum but later revised it to 2x week. That was a mistake because she felt like I was moving the target. At the time 2x per month sounded huge! 24x / year versus 4.
My position exactly. Coming from twice a year, even once a month sounds great.
Another thing the C asked me was why I wanted to ML with my W. At first blush, that sounded like a stupid question, but once I gave it some thought I realized that it was really a very good one. I still can't really give a definitive answer, but it's not for other-validation. It's partly just physical need, but mostly it's because it helps me to establish and maintain the EC. It's more for the way it makes me feel about her than for the way it makes me feel about myself. Like most of the HDs, I do have feelings of hurt and rejection. LM does help to alleviate those feelings. But that’s just a bonus, not the main reason for wanting to do it. I guess that's why I think it's such a good question - it's so very difficult to put into words that it really made me think.
But as usual, I’m getting sidetracked. The issue is that when we ML so seldom, my perception of the problem grows way out of proportion. But I am cognizant of that fact, so when the C asked what I thought was reasonable, I tried to actually be reasonable rather than telling her how it felt at the time. I still feel that 2-3 times per week is reasonable, but I’m open to the possibility that once the pressure is off, I may let that slip back some. It’s really hard to say when I’m not getting any at all, but I felt that it would be better to pick a frequency that I may have to back off from rather than one I would want to boost. Regardless of what you’re measuring, it’s always easier to lower your expectations than to raise them.
wildebube said: -------------- So what do you HD people who have had some success with your SL think about this? Is it normal for your perceived level of D to decrease as you increase your frequency, or does it stay the same? Or is there really a lot of truth to the saying that the more you do it, the more you want to do it? --------------
Well, I will answer since it appears I am at the far end of the scale, although I certainly don't perceive myself that way.
When my wife and I started moving back toward 'normal' (for us), I find that my drive is just where I expected it to be for my age. I could easily do it twice a day or a bit more. Having said that, we seem to have reached a point that we make love most days. So, honestly, as an ideal, we are at about 75% of where I would like to be. Right now, the only reason we don't make love every day is that something legitimately comes up every week or two. Either work or family. It is hard to plan around minor emergencies.
Above I mentioned the dreaded word 'plan'. Our lives leave us little time for spontaneity. So we have a basic daily plan that incorporates time for lovemaking. In the long term, this has an interesting anticipatory effect. Pavlov would have a field day with that. Let's just suffice it to say that it is entirely possible to get wood from looking at a clock :-)
To answer you question the long way around, it is the same as it ever was :-)
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
NOP, I don't think I have changed all that much either. It has stayed steady from what I told him would be my ideal and what truly is my ideal.
Listen, I had a question for you but I am too lazy to start a new thread (apologies all around, Superman).
Have you found that the way your wife shows desire towards you has changed and, if so, in what ways specifically?
For instance: Can you give me an example of how Mrs. Nop used to initiate vs. how she does it now?
I am still trying to wrap my mind around what is a reasonable amount of progress and when I should call it a day. I don't want to push to the extent that I freakin ruin everything; on the other hand, I don't want to give up too easily. It is a fine line, as you know.
Quote: ...what is a reasonable amount of progress and when I should call it a day. I don't want to push to the extent that I freakin ruin everything; on the other hand, I don't want to give up too easily. It is a fine line, as you know.
Sorry to jump in here, HP, but I couldn't resist... temtation.. too.. great...
Anyway, you sound like you think you have to keep pushing continuously till some arbitrary amount of change happens, and then it's over. Sorry, Honey, but I don't think so. I do think that if it becomes apparent that SOME progress has been made, and an extended period of no FURTHER progress happens, it's okay to take a breather, step back and re-evaluate. Spend a bit of down time in the comfort zone, then plunge back into the growth cycle. Cycle back and forth. Otherwise, as you suggest, you're likely to burn out, or alienate him, or both. You don't have to think of "down time" in the comfort zone as "giving up", unless of course that is what you decide to do... Just a thought, maybe not relevant...
HornyPot said: --------------- Have you found that the way your wife shows desire towards you has changed and, if so, in what ways specifically?
For instance: Can you give me an example of how Mrs. Nop used to initiate vs. how she does it now?
I am still trying to wrap my mind around what is a reasonable amount of progress and when I should call it a day. I don't want to push to the extent that I freakin ruin everything; on the other hand, I don't want to give up too easily. It is a fine line, as you know. ---------------
Wow, big question.
I think she shows me desire more in a way I understand now, although we still have a ways to go on that front. She will grab me more, kiss me, basically pay attention to me physically. You have to remember though, that she is a true TSSM book example of a car starting after you push it off (for you younguns, before the advent of car electronics and automatic transmissions, you could start a car by pushing it).
Her initiating (which was incredibly rare) was a basic "wanna mess around?". Now that we have a planned time, there is the ritual shower or bath, then the bed is 'readied', any aids or other playtime accoutrements are procured and then nature is allowed into the picture.
So, as I have indicated, desire and passion are there, but somewhat limited by other constraints. Having said that, the positives are that we don't have to worry about initiation. This removes a lot of potential for miscommunication and makes for anticipation of the event - in a positive way.
I have tried to remove as much performance anxiety from our sessions as possible, There are few rules. She must have at least one orgasm most of the time (believe it or not, sometimes she doesn't want one), and the time together is not for discussion of unpleasant issues. We focus on a relaxed time spent together. As she becomes more secure in the knowledge that she is not a 'substandard' sex partner, rather a participant in our lovemaking, she is gradually becoming more self-confident.
From what I have learned, if I could offer any one piece of advice on your lower-drive spouse, it would be to consider what it takes for them to meet you where you are. I am NOT advocating letting them off the hook, rather recognizing and accepting genuine effort from the LD spouse. In my experience, acknowledging hard effort is encouraging to someone with lower drives than we possess.
When I was first learning to fly back in 1976 (good lord, I am getting old....), all I needed to hear after a really botched up landing was, "hang in there, you can do this". If I had heard "you will never be good enough. You just don't have what it takes. You can never please me", I don't think I would have continued the lesson. I think that we can unintentionally say the same things to our spouses, by actions and words.
I am not saying that people trying to recover their relationships should stop making their desires known. For people that are well on the way to recovery, be careful not to be overly aggressive in your zealousness to fix your spouse. You may do more harm than good. Also, be very aware of your own shortcomings and make a very visible effort to correct your contributions to marital chaos.
I don't know if that really answers your question or not. Maybe I should just say; show mercy and grace for your lover.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
