Quote: L: I want you change something W: I don't want to change...YOU change Convo is basically over.
Sorry Dave, I can’t agree with you there. How about this:
L: I want you to change something (or preferably DO something for me). W: I don’t want to change… YOU change L: But W, this is something very important to me. Why are you so unwilling to do something to make me happier and to improve our M?
Doesn’t that get you to the same place? W may see asking her to do something different as an attack where a statement of what you want is just a statement, but in the end, either approach gets you to the same place. In either case it leads to the real question, which is why she is unwilling to ML with her H.
Quote: Sure, she could say something bitchy like "I don't care" but at least you will (still) have some material to work with.
I don’t know about Mrs. Lee, but MY W would respond to either scenario with silence. When confronted with anything she doesn’t want to deal with, she invariably responds by shutting down. EVERY time I have tried to talk to her about ANYTHING serious, sex, money, potential career changes, …, anything, she just clams up. Intellectually, I know better, but then I invariably keep talking, keep prodding, and keep trying to get some response out of her, but it never works. I need to just say my piece and drop it, but that’s really hard for me. But that’s not the point. The point is that she clams up and as you say, convo is basically over.
Im sitting here reading these posts in thinking wow I wish I had come up with some of this stuff before. I hate it I have a whole convo up in my head then when it comes out of my mouth it always gets messed up.
Dave,
I really liked the way you put the wants instead of asking them to do some fixing on there own. That will be a much easier convo to have. That way my needs are presented very clear and consices<sp>. Then the ball is in her court to do something.
The problem is that I think she is just going to throw back the whole why dont you just F#ck some one else bit. At this point in time im not sure that she really wants the marriage to work. Im not sure she wants to work on her issues because they seem big.
Im pretty much at the end of this so it is either make it or break it time.
I normally do just what you said, and keep pushing and pushing and pushing. Till finally she responds but her response is just anger.
I think the next convo has to be I want to make love twice a week. If her response is I don't want sex twice a week.
Wow i just sat here and thought what do say next. I really couldn't come up with anything good. Just the normal canned responses. Like why don't you want sex twice a week. I already know that answer.
Maybe try differentiating in one way that PM suggests, become roomates. It says to do yuor own laundry, to cook your own meals, to act only like roomates. It's almost like working your way gradually towards divorce, and giving the LD spouse the chance to decide if they really want to end up alone.
wildebube wrote: EVERY time I have tried to talk to her about ANYTHING serious, sex, money, potential career changes, …, anything, she just clams up. ____________________________
How would it work if you opened with, "I need to tell you something. I'm not looking for a response from you. I just need you to hear me, think about it, and respond later."
Maybe she feels pressured by the convo and that would relieve it. It could be that you process things quicker than her and she needs time to gather her thoughts. You could close by thanking her for listening, restate the importance of it to you, and give her a kiss.
grislen wrote: I think the next convo has to be I want to make love twice a week. _________________________
Would it work to combine what AD suggested and incorporate your need, too? For example, you could begin with, "I've been thinking about our convo the other day and I realize I didn't communicate what I needed to very well. I want us to be closer. And I want us to have a more active sex life. I choose to believe that you weren't serious about me finding someone else to have sex with, and I'm not interested in that anyway. But I can't live the way we are now and I'd like us to discuss what we can do to make it better.
However she responds, you could HOY and continue, "I've determined that I need sex twice a week. Anything less than that and I'm an ogre with you and the kids. I'm willing to talk about what I can do to help make this happen, but I really need this."
Good point, Mike, but the kiss might push her over the edge if their wives are anything like my H has been. Touching of any kind especially after an intense conversation closed him off further than ever. The smallest intimacy is often impossible for a LD or ND person to deal with. Take great care with the conversations. You don't want to force or coerce them into changing, you need some cooperation.
Quote: How would it work if you opened with, "I need to tell you something. I'm not looking for a response from you. I just need you to hear me, think about it, and respond later."
I've tried that. No dice. The problem is that she never responds later. I've given her a week before bringing it up again. No answer, but I still didn't press her; I let it go for another week. Still nothing. Third week, still nothing. I gave up.
We've been married for 28 years, six months, and 12 days - this has been her response EVERY TIME. She refuses to participate in any serious discussion that could precipitate a need for action. She'll talk about serious subjects that don't require any changes on her part. When I sold my business, she was quite willing to discuss the relative merits of various inventment options for the proceeds. She'll talk about problems with the kids and how to change their behavior. But she won't talk about sex. She won't talk about fiscal responsibility. She won't talk about anything that may necessitate a change in her behavior or her attitudes. Period.
I'd have to ask what her lack of response is intended to communicate to you. If someone cared so little about me that they wouldn't acknowledge or honor my request, I'd have to consider what our R is. I'd let her know that she is communicating with you, but what she is communicating is causing a problem for me.
You may have to decide if you're willing to live with someone who won't respond to you. It would be an integrity issue for me. It looks like a "crucible moment" is developing.
I agree with you there, Barn. She IS telling me something with her refusal to respond.
As far as deciding if I'm willing to live with someone who won't respond to me - yes I am. Because of my religious beliefs, because of my kids, and because of my own personal values, I will be staying. If W chooses not to participate in the M, so be it. But that doesn't mean I can't keep trying to change things. At some point I MAY give up, decide that things will never change and that I might as well just learn to live with it - but I'm not there yet.
