Checking in. As far as the trust thing goes, I'm not so sure the WAS thinks anything they do is wrong or contributes to mistrust. From their perspective, if it is good for them, they choose that over all else no matter how it impacts others and us. Does the thought even cross their mind on how it impacts us?
Couldn't you politely convey what you so concisely said above about mistrust? How would he take it?
Switching gears
Quote: We've been having a bit of an open email discussion, though he seems to be doing his best to shut himself down from me while still maintaining some level of conversation. Kind of sad.
The have it both ways syndrome we were talking about earlier. I haven't gotten to our agreement to outline the interactions that would be acceptable to each of us, respectively. I'm wondering if this sort of cake eating, if that is what it is in your opinion, is acceptable to you?
A seperate question for you I am struggling with myself. Up until now my WAS has been very technologically challenged and uses the computer sparingly. She recently figured out email is efficient for tasks, mostly business related.
Since I have agreed to file along with her, I have initiated contact sparingly. She says she feels "sad" to have interactions with me so she tries to avoid talking on the phone at length and avoid seeing me in person.
All of a sudden she has sent me some emails where she didn't even reply to my emails before.
I'm looking for your opinion on email. Has it been a forum or a "venue" where you have been able to improve your communication with WAS? Or has it been in your opinion another tool for them to get their cake eating fix? Any other positives or negatives on your email experiences?
Quote: Couldn't you politely convey what you so concisely said above about mistrust? How would he take it?
This is exactly what I did do! Not sure what kind of response it will get right now, but in the past he has understood what I was trying to say.
Quote: I haven't gotten to our agreement to outline the interactions that would be acceptable to each of us, respectively. I'm wondering if this sort of cake eating, if that is what it is in your opinion, is acceptable to you?
I hope you've been too busy having fun to finish your outline. Hmmm, I'm going to need to think about your question more-- in terms of whether I think that's what it is. On one level, yes. And no, that's not OK.
As for your question, not sure I can generalize it. Email hasn't necessarily improved our communication, but it's a tool H uses a lot in all areas of his life. We've had much better dialogue via IM or in person. Much better.
Email has on occasion allowed me to express myself clearly when our emotions were heated-- and allowed him to read and digest things when I wasn't around. But I think it also makes it easy for me to talk when I should be listening...
Dialogue via email (where we each respond) is a bit new for us. H has tended to keep his emails light or business oriented. And he isn't someone who routinely responds to emails the way I do.
Here's something I've realized... his light or business-like emails seem fine to me when our R has been good or improving. When it is avoidant or seemingly non-existent, those emails really get my back up. Just realized this pattern as I am typing this. Interesting.
I know others have had good communications via email-- like Azure, for example.
Hey Seattle, Yes, I was going to say that email has been very, very good for H and me. I don't know that it will save our M, but it definitely has given us opportunity to say more vulnerable things, share more of our feelings, apologize to each other, chat about books and current events, etc. Of course, we are both writers, so I don't know if that might have something to do with it. It's rather ironic, in a way, because a lot of our early courtship was based on emails, too. I guess the upshot of my advice is: try it, and see if it's good for your R.
Quote: It's rather ironic, in a way, because a lot of our early courtship was based on emails, too.
Wow. That just made me think of something I hadn't before... H and I have never really corresponded via email. In our R, email was only used to send a "be sure to pick up the avocados for guacamole and I'll make the margaritas" kinds of emails-- making plans, or sharing interesting online stuff. Or just before the bomb when he started traveling it was the I miss you emails.
We were always "in person" kind of people. He!!, we lived together before there was any email!
But H and OW did use email to develop their R. I wonder if this has anything to do with why it's felt weird for us to talk this way? (But then we've not had the same difficulty with IM.)
Just thinking aloud... probably adding up to nothing.
Interesting about the emails, Wonder! I have been using email more and more to communicate with h...I just like email because it is more on "my terms". I can write when I want, answer his emails when I want, etc. It also alleviates that sinking feeling I get when I see his number on caller ID!!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
I like the idea of e-mail, personally. But I also think that it's really obvious if it doesn't work at all. For instance, Mr. Wonderful's job requires heavy computer work and he does not check his personal e-mail if at all possible. Well, unless D10 reminds him.
But if it doesn't have a negative effect AND it's something different, how can it be a bad thing? If the goal is to re-establish a friendship, I would make sure to keep the message and tonality light and slightly funny (or extremely funny if it's appropriate) and warm.
But then again, Wonder and I are writers at heart--this is a medium that works well for us. I swear if I could wear a keyboard like a necklace, it would alleviate most (if not all) of my ambiguities. I would have to store a folder on my person of the smiley emoticons to pull out when necessary... and I don't think I could properly classify wearing emoticons as accessorizing!
Anyway, just want to say hello and wish you guys a happy holiday weekend (in case I'm not able to post again for a few days).
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: I swear if I could wear a keyboard like a necklace, it would alleviate most (if not all) of my ambiguities. I would have to store a folder on my person of the smiley emoticons to pull out when necessary... and I don't think I could properly classify wearing emoticons as accessorizing!
This cracks me up, Bets. What a crazy image this gave me! Almost a tribal sort of outfit! LOL
Quote: This cracks me up, Bets. What a crazy image this gave me! Almost a tribal sort of outfit! LOL
Me too!
Quote: If the goal is to re-establish a friendship, I would make sure to keep the message and tonality light and slightly funny (or extremely funny if it's appropriate) and warm.
Excellent point, Betsey. IMHO, for all communications with WAS, we need to have a clear idea of what our goal is, or it's easy to lose perspective. And I am not at all sure that re-establishing friendship is my immediate goal right now, where as others do know that's their goal. So Seattle, if you're still here with us, maybe thinking about what your goal is will help you decide how you choose to respond to these emails. You give me the advice that deep down, I know some of the answers... and so do you, my friend.
My goal is to consistently interact in an open, honest and positive way. I think that, for me, friendship is going to require some work on the other end at this point. And would require me to be honest in the way I've been lately rather than the old pattern of sweeping things under the rug or looking the other way. Anything else would feel fake to me, and to H as well, I suspect.
However, he hasn't responded to my last email, and it's been a couple of days. But then, I let him know that I was inviting his response/thoughts, not insisting on them. (long-term 180 for the IGoM).
H has not been responding to my emails lately. They are all about the "business" of selling the house.
I think having a new GF has confused him about how to interact with me. Maybe I should bring it up? You know, admit there is an elephant in the living room??
Who knows...for now I am celebrating my independence this weekend! ENJOY!!!!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
Not sure what kind of response it will get right now, but in the past he has understood what I was trying to say. 
Betsey