You just want a woman who likes sex and ANY OTHER admirable quality she might possess doesn't matter? She could be a worthless mother, dishonest, unfaithful, horrible to you and yet.....yet....if she has wild and passionate sex with you, your love tank would be full.
Are you listening to yourself, man?!
For what it's worth, I want desire too. However, I am not nearly as hung up on him having the RIGHT kind of desire.
As long as his mind and body are open to me drawing out the desire, then I am game.
I think you are making the mistake of assuming that a woman who is passionate about her marriage yet also still LD would continue to act the way your wife acts.
I can guarantee you that the reason that she takes so long to get revved up and is so bored-acting and unresponsive is because she has little desire and passion for the marriage right now. If you can tackle THAT, then it won't matter if her desire cycle is backwards. She will WANT the passion as much as you do and, though you will have to stimulate her for the desire to come out full force, it will happen much sooner and she will WANT it and be open to it. She will initiate it and look forward to it.
Can you see the difference between that scenario and the types of encounters that you have with her right now?
Sorry, CeMar, I still can't go along with you on this. How can you say that "these LD women don't see sex as an EMOTION. They are hung up on the frequency and the mechanics of sex"? In my experience, women have MUCH more emotion involved in the whole sex thing than men do. I don't mean to say that men aren't emotionally involved in it, just that women are more emotional about it than men are. I also suspect that your statement about them being hung up on the frequency and mechanics is based on your W's response to what she perceives as pressure to perform more often. For reasons yet to be determined, she isn't presently inclined to ML with the same frequency that you are, but from the statements you've made here, it's clear that you demand frequent, passionate, lusty sex filled with desire. Don't you think that puts pressure on your W to perform on queue? Don't you think that pressure might make her uncomfortable? Don't you see that pressure like that would have a tendency to suck the passion and desire out of it? I'm as horny as the next guy, but if I knew that my feelings didn't matter, that I was expected to ML X number of times per week whether I felt like it or not, and if I knew that I had better do it with zeal and gusto every time or I would be a failure and not filling my W's love bank, it would sure kill my desire.
As I said before, I'm new here and I may well be reading you wrong, but it seems like you're unwilling to bend. You're HD and you EXPECT your partner to be HD - all the time.
I typically don't defend CeMar (and I'm not letting CeMar off the hook either), but before we started having more sex, I was so desperate, anxious, and generally freaked out that I was thinking that way too. As predicted by the C, once the frequency came back, I wasn't so weird anymore. I actually was able to develop clarity and could then see the real issues going on. A little bit of sex also makes it much easier to empathize.
CeMar's statements, as "broken-record" as they may seem, are due to his situation and his anxiety about it. In my house, it was fairly easy to move forward but in his, it's probably going to be much harder. On one hand I want say "shut up!" and on the other, I feel sympathetic.
PM talks about the fact that greater fusion, requires greater force. So, CeMar, I hate to say this, but I truly think you need to develop an exit strategy and separate for a while. It will require you to get over the notion that a D will ruin you kids' lives. It will be such a loud shot across the bow, that your W will have no choice but to respond. It may or may not work.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
You said something else I have to comment on. You said:
Quote: What I was trying to say here is that Michelle says several times in SSM that the HD man needs to show A LOT of empathy towards his LD wife. I believe that this is code for "Realize that they have much to overcome, and even their best efforts will not be what you were hoping for, so please set your sights MUCH lower."
That's not what I got out of it at all. What I got out of that was that the HDH should realize that desire isn't a switch that you can flip on. He needs to me empathetic and understand that his LDW can't just decide to become HD. They both need to understand the other's needs and desires and try to work together to meet those needs and desires. One potential outcome is that the HDH will have to lower his expectations, but that's by no means the only possible scenario.
That may be more or less the same thing you said, but for me it's all in the attitude. I view it as a difference that both partners need to work together to resolve. You appear to view it as a shortcoming on your W's behalf that you have to suffer along with. The end result might be the same, but the attitude does make a difference. If you look at it as both of you having a problem that you need to work on together in a loving and compassionate manner, then any increase in frequency and/or desire is a positive step that benefits you both. If you look at it as a shortcoming on her part, any increase in frequency and/or desire that doesn't measure up to what YOU want is still a failure. Maybe not as big a failure, but a failure nonetheless.
OK, my two cents. I think many of you are jumping CeMar's case for just stating -- in plain English -- what a lot of us THINK, but are always so damned careful to couch in more politically-correct language.
What I get out of what he is saying is that while many of these non-sexual qualities might be admirable and even preferable for some men, it is the CHANGE in his wife that has him angry and frustrated. It's the ol' "bait-and-switch," quite simply he does not feel like THIS IS THE WOMAN HE MARRIED.
There is a saying in Christian circles of "If you feel yourself further from God, as yourself -- WHO MOVED?" I think many of us are sad, angry, frustrated and confused because we are now married to a woman that is NOTHING like the one we married. I'm in advertising -- if you're LD/ND, that's fine -- just let me know before I marry you. I may or may not still marry you, but don't you think I deserve to know that, IF MY PRIMARY LOVE LANGUAGE is physical touch and affection???
Choc., who can understand where CeMar is coming from.
Ditto that, chocolateyes. And geeeeeze does my W get mad when I accuse her of the bait and switch. Kind of like when the dentist pokes your tooth and hits a live nerve.
Have you ever seen the site =marriedtomommie.com ?? This addresses that fact, women who use sex to "get their man " then turn into a "mommie". Read the letters there, really funny.
Quote: OK, my two cents. I think many of you are jumping CeMar's case for just stating -- in plain English -- what a lot of us THINK, but are always so damned careful to couch in more politically-correct language.
Buzzzzzz. Wrong.
I've been accused of many things, but NOBODY has EVER accused me of being politically correct. I agree that in all probability, unless they can determine why his formerly HDW is now LD and address those issues, and unless he decides to bail out, CeMar WILL have to settle for something less than he wants. But if she was HD at one time, it's by no means a foregone conclusion that she can't/won't be again. I repeat, there are REASONS.
Quote: ...it is the CHANGE in his wife that has him angry and frustrated. It's the ol' "bait-and-switch," quite simply he does not feel like THIS IS THE WOMAN HE MARRIED.
Again, I have to disagree. I can't argue that he may FEEL that way, but I simply can't believe that his W was LD all along and used sex as the "ol' bait-and-switch" to lure him in and then return to her LD ways. Why would anyone, man or woman, want to enter into something as serious as M under false pretenses (unless CeMar is like a multi-millionaire or something ) It may be that there are other issues in her life that are killing the desire. Maybe she's just experiencing a decline in hormone production. Maybe she feels that he only wants her for sex. Who knows? My point is that there are REASONS why she went from HD to LD. To say that she's not meeting his needs without exploring what has changed seems very one-sided to me. And assuming that she went into the M KNOWING that that was the situation seems incomprehensible.
Quote: I'm in advertising -- if you're LD/ND, that's fine -- just let me know before I marry you. I may or may not still marry you, but don't you think I deserve to know that, IF MY PRIMARY LOVE LANGUAGE is physical touch and affection???
Yes, assuming that she was LD at the time you married and was aware of that fact along with the fact that your primary love language was physical touch. As I have read CeMar's posts, that doesn't appear to be the case. Did he not say that she used to be HD? I repeat, there must be one or more reasons for the change. Rather than saying that she's simply not meeting his needs, rather than saying that an HDH and an LDW are totally incompatible, rather than saying it's inevitable that he'll either have to move on or settle for less, how about exploring those reasons and trying to address them. It IS possible that he's right. It IS possible that her current LD is just "the way things are". But the tone of what he says seems to be saying that that's the way it is and that that's all there is to it. I don't agree. They were happy and compatible once; they can be again.
I think that I said that all of the qualities that were listed for the LD women (and my wife has them all) are greatly appreciated. But I have looked at myself and determined quite honestly that my love language is physical touch. So here I have an admirable lady that never makes any deposits in my love bank because if she is expressing love, it is in a love language that I don't interpret. So this makes me VERY suseptable to women that LOVE physicalness, weather it be sex or just affection.
As for the right kind of desire, all I can say is that when she was younger, when she had desire, she was flirtatious, fun, loved to cuddle, kiss, have sex daily, and perform sexal acts that today just are not there. Even when I rev her up, she still is far from the passionate one I married. I want passion, not "Hurry up and lets take care of you" cr#p. Since I am the one doing ALL the physical effort, I feel like I am a CHORE to her. I am slowly getting to the point where I have all kinds of desire for sex, but not with her. It's no fun making love to someone whose head is not into it. And most important of all, I want to be shown sex and affection on some occasions WITHOUT me doing anything to REV her up, like I might actually mean something to her.
) It may be that there are other issues in her life that are killing the desire. Maybe she's just experiencing a decline in hormone production. Maybe she feels that he only wants her for sex. Who knows? My point is that there are REASONS why she went from HD to LD. To say that she's not meeting his needs without exploring what has changed seems very one-sided to me. And assuming that she went into the M KNOWING that that was the situation seems incomprehensible.