In our early days when we were both HD there was a lot of spontaneous affection on both our parts. My LD yrs took its toll on him, and this is the end result, whether it's due to payback or him still being ED. I guess I just have to be patient.
I am feeling better tonite. He came home and did a 180 and was very affectionate, and I met him with the same response. I have to learn to expect that we will get into these negative, fused spaces and that they can be turned around if we don't keep feeding them.
Well last nite I set myself up for failure. I woke up at 3 am in an alert, affectionate place, and thought "should I or shouldn't I?" and figured WTF and snuggled/woke up H. To his credit he didn't immediately reject me...he gave me the 5 min. "here's some attention and let me go back to sleep" routine which I should have just accepted. Instead, being in this HD state, I wanted to play more and he had had enough. We had a talk. "We can't do this in the middle of the night, I need to sleep, you are too much, etc." is what I heard. And true, it was selfish of me on some part bc he does need rest, but am I forever going to live my life in such a controlled way? Now here's where the differentiation came in. Ususally I would get very sensitive at this point and retreat, or I would get into some analytic/psych discussion leading nowhere, but last nite I said " you have such a stick in your azz" which is completley NOT my personality, but it's really what I felt. He is sucking the joy from me. The funny thing is, he actually responded to that, and we had a nice nite, although we are both exhausted today and we both have busy days. I am beginning to see him more like MM's H ( or this might be fusion with MM)...a lot of irritability, which usually makes me sensitive. I am going to try to stop reacting to it and remain upbeat, humorous, warm, etc and assert what I want, for the sake of the marriage.
Hi InnerJourney I am glad things worked out in the end. I know sometimes it is hard because we feel selfish but at the same time it is like we have a right to ask. My problem to is becoming overly sensitive and taking things way to personal when he doesn't want to and normally end up saying something and we get in a fight because I want to and he doesn't so I try to keep it to myself. My counselour gave me the book "Divorce Busting" a few weeks ago to read and it has helped a lot that's how I found this site.. And I have been trying to quit asking everynight and putting pressure on him changing things around a bit.. And being loving even if he isn't in the mood giving him the message it is okay if he isn't.. And the other night to my suprise... I told him shortly after he got home from work I said I just want you to know I am feeling frisky so I want to be with you tonight if you aren't too tired. Are you?? He was joking and said as long as you do all the work.. But he was playing anyway I didn't ask I just told him how I felt and then last night made it a point not to ask or start anything letting him know I will only initate when I really want to and not as often as I have been so maybe that will help. I used to love to be woke up in the middle of the night and ML wow that is spontanious but only have gotten to once with hubby..
Journey, This is what I have been doing lately (ok, within the last few days, lol):
Schnarch recommends following the emotional connection right. Well part of doing that is to immerse yourself in your partners' reality and really feel and experience it. My partners' reality is often that he wants to go to sleep and not ML. No malice or rejection in his mind..he just doesn't want to. So I have been trying to be more gracious in accepting his words at face value and not attaching any further meaning to them--such as, He is not attracted to me; or He is a dud; or whatever.
Now the flip side of this is that, presumably, when H and are connecting that HE will feel MY reality and often make the choice to ML even when he isn't dying for it. I believe that he does this, but I think that I have a tendency to be overly negative about his behavior and attribute that action (ML when he originally wasn't intending to) as pity sex or him trying to keep me from getting crabby.
So in other words, if he initiates I am doubtful about his motivation..whether it came from true desire..and if he doesn't initiate then I am positive that it comes from a place of me being unattractive, or him withholding. This problem is with ME.
Anyway, I digress...my original point was to say that in following the connection that I have felt much better at the outcome. Prior to this week, I think that I interpreted an emotional connection to be that we established a deep connection that would, well, naturally lead to sex! I wasn't giving enough credence to the idea that an emotional connection for him might not consist of sex that night. And if I am feeling his reality properly, I will respect that.
HOWEVER, I so sympathize with you girlfriend!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is so easy to unleash all this psychological mumbo jumbo but then you get in the situation and it is so hard to live it. Rejection sucks no matter how gently it was done. I often pick fights with my H after he rejects me so that I can hurt him as much as he has just hurt me.
I also feel for you in terms of always playing by his rules. Let me ask you this: Is that reality or a perception? I have been thinking of keeping a small journal, or writing on the calendar, the days that my H shows desire (since that is my beef) because I know that I probably way underestimate his contributions. Does your H ever respond when you initiate, or does he put you off and then initiate himself on another night?
Glad you had a good night and got it all worked through..is date nite still on for Sat??
Journey. I'm glad to hear that your spouse cooperated with you after a wee bit. My spouse has, on too many occaisions, told me the next day when it is too late, that she thought about waking me up but didn't. And then she doesn't even ponder wanting to catch up for the missed opportunity.
I'm glad you made a step foward and hope it continues to go well.
Scott -Who is hoping that tonight will work out since last night was a shut out.
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
Date nite is still on for tomorrow( Saturdays). It's never a problem bc he is in control of it and will initiate. It's my opportunity to try to develop more EC ( right now I want to work on verbal communication when ML). Tonite we are both getting along well...I thought he would be complaining about how I kept him up last nite, how tired he is, etc., but once again I see a change in his attitude. It's making me see him less as an insensitive control freak ...he is trying, and that's a good suggestion, HP, to keep a journal of the good stuff. For my part, I am trying to be upbeat and positive and not get into negative thinking and dwelling on the past. I am certain that we will get into some sort of bad dynamic/argument/fused state fairly soon, and my goal is to not get overly upset and to not launch into psychobabble while being self assertive and maintaining a sense of humor. Yeah right. J
The board is very quiet today...I'm hoping everyone is out there having fun! Last nite and this am H and I have had a lot of EC ( hugging and feeling good with each other). I think he is feeling less pressure for the EC to turn into ML and is less withholding. I am trying not to feel too sensitive that he isn't turned on by me and am just enjoying the connection. I keep thinking about this dynamic where he withholds, I begin to prod him, he finds me annoying and I get upset, and that gets him motivated. This just doesn't work for me. Having him spontaneously give me affection( without ML) is a step forward. I think what happens on "date nites" is that he gets it in his head that it's the right thing in a normal relationship to have sex and he pushes himself and makes the effort. It hurts that he doesn't have more spontaneous desire for me, but I am no longer going to push him into sex. ( yeah right). Instead, I want to focus that he is putting himself out there by offering me more affection than in the past. I don't understand why the emotional connection doesn't turn into sexual feelings for him the way it does for me, but it doesn't unless I get upset, which I am not willing to do anymore. J
Hi J, How did he show affection and desire when he was the HD partner?
Has his level of affection changed, or have your perceptions of it changed? That is, did you used to view his affection as sexual pressure whereas now you view it as an opportunity for EC?
Or has he just always been a nonaffectionate guy..
Just wanting to get some more info in case I think of something that might work. In any case I am GREEN with envy over date night. Tell me, do you actually go on a date or is it a euphemism for sex?
Cause, girl, if you're getting a date I'm really gonna be green!
Honey, stuck at home with D4, D2 and my niece for the weekend, who is 18 months. Oh and H too. So no dates here! Have some fun for me too...............
