Bets, I just wanted to thank you for your inspiration and advice. You have been a dear friend and confidant. I may not be good at advice for you, but I have a shoulder to lean anytime you need it. Good luck and God Bless.
I think that sounds more like Wilson on Home Improvement than Phoebe, but what the heck.
Meredith, I want to apologize for inadvertently omitting you by name in the "love fest" yesterday. You're here and don't you forget it! As soon as you get your bearings, I want to hear all about your vacation to my old stomping grounds (complete with details of cicada-cides).
I just got off the phone with a sicky sweet Mr. W., and I knew by his tone that it had to do with a favor. Well, I rearranged my schedule and erased a date I had with myself on Friday night (to go see Harry Potter on the widescreen) so he didn't have to bring D7 home at the crack of dawn on Saturday morning before a 7 am tee time.
I had to force myself to accept his very generous offer (HA) with the knowledge that he's been pretty lenient with my spur of the moment issues as well. It's a struggle for me sometimes, especially now that the menopausal hormones have taken center stage in my show production lately. I figure one of these days, Peter Pan is going to be evicted from Neverland. And I'm not going to be the landlord who throws his a$$ out on the streets....
Pam, I DO have to stop the travel thing! I've made up for lost time from last year, and I realized last night that I want to stay put for awhile. Unless some really handsome and rich guy offers me a trip overseas.... then I might be convinced to change my tune!
But since I have a better chance of getting struck by lightning, I guess I better get back to reality. And my reality is changing as of today because D7 is out of school, and our schedule changes. I'm hoping to fit more workouts in my schedule... but we'll see.
Hey, I have to tell you guys that I'm now down 28 lbs. I technically have 5 to go, but am now eyeing another 5 as my final destination. So far, so good.
Thanks for checking in, everyone. And Pattie, yes, reunions are interesting. I can't even say that about mine. It was BORING. Thank goodness my ulterior motive was to catch up with old friends, and that part made the whole adventure worthwhile. (Not to mention a very important trip to Carl's, which has the best frozen custard in the Commonwealth of Virginia...)
Pam, I really am totally jazzed that you handled things here so doggone well all by yourself. I always knew you had that eloquent side, and were selling yourself short that you have a way with words that I cannot rival.
GO YOU! GO MEREDITH TOO!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Hi Bets, Welcome back. I noticed some grumps over here in piecing and stayed out of it. But it seems that it has visited many other threads...usually over in surviving, sometimes MLC and then people get huffy and decide not to post anymore and then other people get into it and beg the former people to come back....it's like some gremlin starts messing with people's heads. Anyway, in the past I've gotten involved and just can't /don't wanna do it anymore....who died and made me judge, right?
So, I guess you are saying that things worked out, and I am glad for that!
I didn't know you went to school in VA..you should have told me when I went to the VA Beach DB party to look for a Carls..shame on you.
Want to find out more about that diet...slim4life is it? I have done nothing good re weight and the stress is causing more and more to pile on. NOT good for my mental health.
Well, I hear you loud and clear! Did ya get my e-mail?
In the zillion marathon chats we had, I didn't mention my affiliation with the fair Commonwealth of VA? Well, I'm a borne and bred VA girl. It's my childhood home, and I'm now a westerner at heart. Funny... every time I head home, I get pangs of emotions. But they are mostly guilt that I can't see my loved ones more often. If they all die or move away, it won't hold the same feeling with me. So right now, moving back isn't on the table for discussion... even though I think about it quite a bit.
Carl's isn't a chain... it's a one hit wonder unto itself. I'm going to give them a little more free advertising, even though the line outside it doesn't need this. If you're ever in the city of Fredericksburg, it's right off Rt. 1.
The guy who owns it is the brother to one who used to run the best damn frozen custard stand in northern VA... very close to my folks' house. That would be Frozen Dairy Bar in Falls Church. Gotcha covered when you're in town!
Slim4Life... you got it. I'll hook you up if you are interested. Warning: it doesn't include Carl's or FDB, but I have to admit that I splurged at Carl's on Saturday night. After all, I haven't been back in 10 years.
I'm really pleased with the progress but have to say I periodically miss my cheeseburgers, pickles and peanut butter. Soon. In the meantime, I'm going to workout on my way home.
Let me know when you're going to be around on a Friday night. If it's soon, we can do Harry Potter. It's playing on the widescreen on Colo Blvd.... maybe I'll bring D7? She was watching the Chamber of Secrets when I got home yesterday. But this one is way more scary. Not sure if she'll understand the idea of dementors???
I'm willing to give it a shot, though, if you're going to be down this way.
Good to see you up this way again!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Okay, all. I'm going to post this while I still have some recall of the conversations that have followed. On his way out the door tonight, Mr. Wonderful handed me a 5 page written letter. This part is the answer to question #1 of the letter I gave him over Mother's Day weekend--to write us an ending.
I'm going to copy a few paragraphs and then journal our following conversations on the phone. Here goes his edited portions:
But alas, back to subject at hand. The ending has already been written--we cannot continue as we did. Yes, we have both changed. You have released your bitterness; I fear I have not.
Small things continue to irritate me. Take, for example, the timing of your letter. It seems to me you always time things right before I am about to attempt a vacation or a relaxing trip. A 2 1/2 day furlough, which I had hoped would be an escape, was instead tormented by the decisions I must ultimately make.
So while this letter contains no bad news, I decided purposefully not to write it completely until you came back from your trip.
Where have I been the last year or so? I must confess: I have enjoyed some of my newfound freedoms. Continual home improvements and fixes aren't necessary in an apartment. I had the choice of helping as I saw fit.
I must also confess that apartment living can be hell. There's no real good place to play with the kids. There is nothing more quiet or more lonely than being in an apartment with no kids.
Remember how your parents (okay well, maybe it was mine) said the place was empty and quiet with no kids? Well, it's true. You can't do anything without spending money in an apartment. But then again, you probably knew this.
I hate myself for moving out and for what it has done to the family. Yet, I don't see any other way it could have been played out.
A new beginning? That comes in part 2.
My first reaction was fury. I was thoroughly pissed that he accused me of ruining his few days off. I wanted to scream at him, "You've ruined my entire last 17 months! Who gives a flying f!@# about 2 1/2 days!"
Then I fast forwarded to the last paragraph, which didn't sit well. I opted to mull this over for awhile.
I called him from my cell and thanked him for his reply. I can't recall all the details, but I opted to validate his anger. I told him I was sorry he felt I had intentionally set out to ruin his weekend. He sort of brushed it off and said, "OK, apology accepted."
I didn't like that answer, so I replied softly, "No, K, it's not as simple as that. You said the word ALWAYS, which implies that you have buried more resentment around this topic than you're sharing. I don't want you to accept my apology. I want to understand you better."
He started to laugh (which I hate, and I have brought this up in MC a few times--I understand it and why he does it, but it still catches me way off guard), and said, "You're right. Obviously this is a problem for me, and I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it."
He told me if I really want to understand him, I would recognize that he's a conflict avoider and that was the way he was. I asked him, "Why?" HE was caught off guard and asked, "You want me to dive into my psyche? That's near to impossible!"
I commented, "Well, people can and do change, K. It's like this: Why do you keep burning yourself on a hot stove and then crying about how mad it makes you? What will it take for you to accept the fact that touching the hot stove is BAD for you and find some other way of approaching this problem?"
He said, "???? Please explain."
I answered, "Well, from my perspective, you have expressed the fact that you are a conflict avoider. Then you admit that you expect others to clean up the conflict. Then you get angry that you had no control over the outcome. Is this correct?"
He answered, "Yes, that's right on the money."
Me: "Well, dealing with and processing conflict is not fun, K. Ever. But in order to have control over the outcome, you have to find a way to make your needs known so that the solution includes you... to prevent you from getting angry that you aren't part of it."
MW: "Yeah, but I don't know how to do it."
Me: "Well, you're really adaptive, K. I saw it when I worked with you. You're a solution guy. I think you can find a way if you're really willing to do it."
MW: "We have addressed this in numerous MC sessions, Betsey, and it hasn't helped!"
Me: "Well, not to assign any blame here, K, but the fact is neither of us was really working on a solution when we were in MC. We were airing grievances and resentments. Neither one of us was committed to making this work."
(Well, that's not true. One half of us was committed.)
MW: "Maybe so."
Me: "Another thing: do you really hate yourself?"
MW: Laughing again... ugh! "Not enough to commit suicide."
Me: "I didn't think that at all. I am just concerned about it. Tell me if this is really true."
MW: "Sometimes. Sometimes I really do hate what I've done."
Me: "Is guilt eating you alive?"
MW: Incredulous. I knew I hit a big nerve again. "Do I look like guilt is eating me alive?"
Me: "I imagine it is a big factor, but I really don't know since we don't talk much about this stuff. I think something is really lurking under the surface, though."
MW: "Yeah. Something."
Me: "How do you see yourself working through this stuff?"
MW: "I don't know. I wish I knew. That's why we were in C, and it really didn't help."
Me: "Well, it takes time. And besides, you only scratched the surface of this stuff. I wish there was a way to illustrate what I'm trying to convey. Just because you acknowledge the bitterness being there does not mean you've processed it so you can let go."
MW: "Hmmm. That is true."
Me: "Well, I'm at the store. I'm going to head in now."
MW: "Is it the pottery place? What did you make? A plate or something?"
Me: "Or something. Hey, I want to head in before they close. Talk to you later?"
MW: "Sure. See you. Bye."
****** Next installment shortly. I processed through a few errands. My crazymaking self came out in full force and my thoughts were: I've had enough! Tell him you WANT a D!
I got home and put groceries away, and got D7's stuff ready for camp tomorrow. And then I dialed him once again.
Me: "Do you have a few minutes?"
MW: Sigh. "Okay. I probably owe you this anyway."
Me: "Well, again, I want to apologize for how the letter was delivered. I never meant to hurt you."
MW: "It's okay, Bets. Really. I don't have an issue with the letter. The fact is it is the single factor that forced me to really devote time to thinking about it. I just think your timing sucked."
Me: "With that statement in mind, I'd like to ask for some help."
MW: "What kind of help?"
Me: "Well, I've been asking for you to think about this for a few months now. I've asked more than a few times. You've given me a patent reply: YES, YOU DESERVE AN ANSWER. YES, I'LL PROVIDE IT TO YOU SOON. And then I don't hear from you on the subject again until I bring it up."
MW: "Wow, you're right. Sorry."
Me: "I am very reluctant to use the past to illustrate it, because the fact is I really think of it as irrelevant. But since it goes to motive, I really feel I need to explain this a bit."
MW: "Go on."
Me: "In the past, when I've asked you for something, I've received one of 3 possible answers: You either give me a Yes and then resent it, Give me a Yes and mean NO or ignore my request. How do I change how I approach you so that you feel comfortable sharing with me?"
MW: Very long pause. "You're very observant. I guess I don't know. I guess I really just am annoyed with the timing of the letter, Bets. Nothing else about it."
Me: "Let me back up. I really don't want to write you letters anymore, K. The fact is, I want something from you, and I want you to give it to me freely. I want you to initiate conversations like these with me so that you don't bottle your feelings indefinitely and so I don't have to break down in order for you to take my request seriously.
And I'd like for you to be fair to me. I think there are many instances where you have used the word ALWAYS to represent 10% of the time. That is, I've asked you for something, you've ingored it, and then I've had to use bad timing to get your attention."
Silence. For about 2 minutes.
MW: "Um, I have just realized that your perception is not untrue."
Me: "So what do you feel I should do so that I don't go to those extremes to help you understand that I'm in a lot of pain right now, K? I really need this from you. All I really want is for you to be forthcoming with your thoughts and feelings so that I don't get so agitated at this process."
MW: "I know, the whole family does deserve a resolution to this crap."
Me: "I want to be selfish for just a moment. For once, I want to take center stage with you. I want to be your main concern. I want you to consider me before you consider the girls or yourself."
MW: "I understand. I see how you feel left out of this. What can I say?"
Me: "I don't want you to grovel. I just want to know if I'm a big part of your decision making process? I want to be important again. Please be honest with me."
MW: "If this were just about the girls, my answer would have been given a long time ago. But it IS about you too, Betsey. Honestly."
Me: "I just feel like I've been giving myself to you and the girls unconditionally, for the best of the family, for so long. I want MY needs to be important to you too. Can you understand this?"
MW: "Yes. I do. And I'm really sorry for hurting you."
Me: "I accept your apology. And I really feel it is sincere."
Then he changed the subject to his father and how annoyed he was with him. I used the chance to validate him and then got to the bottom of the issue. His dad is nagging him to go back to MT to sign important bank documents. Mr. W. told him in a very annoyed tone, "Dad, you can enter the new millennium and send them to me via fedex. I'll even pay for it."
They sparred for awhile longer, before they hung up. I cleared my throat and said, "Mr. W. can I tell you what I see?" He said yes.
I mentioned that I see his father as trying to ask him to come up, but using the signatures as the scapegoat. I commented, "I see your father as telling you he needs you and wants you there, but he's using another means to get you to agree to do his bidding."
MW: "WTF? Why the hell doesn't he just come out and ask me? Though I'm not sure I would say yes anyway."
I smiled and said, "Well, I think there is a parallel in the answer that applies to me as well. Think about it."
Then we hung up. And that's it for now, until I come back tomorrow with a good night's sleep and more answers.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Dear God, woman, do you have the patience of a saint?
Quote: My first reaction was fury. I was thoroughly pissed that he accused me of ruining his few days off. I wanted to scream at him, "You've ruined my entire last 17 months! Who gives a flying f!@# about 2 1/2 days!"
This was what I was thinking while reading this... but then I realized, no. This story has come too far for that to be more than the thought that runs through the head that gets discarded before it does any damage...
Seriously, Bets, you handled yourself elegantly and maturely and with count-to-10-and-let's-hear-what-the-man-has-to-say grace.
I think many of us can take something from your example here, and you know, I think Mr. W should get his act in gear and do the same (did see a bit of that in your post too). I'm happy to point out several things he might want to take away from this conversation if he'd like some guidance on that one, LOL. Kidding...
((Betsey)) - I'm not sure I know what to say . . . I am amazed how you navigate through the issues, point out analogies, validate, and gingerly help him express himself!
The main thing I see (& remember I'm still new at this) is that he seems to wait for you to describe what he's doing, what he's thinking, and then he lets you know when you're "on the money" in the description. He lets you name his issues.
I liked the part of reminding him that he is a 'solutions guy' at work - that he does have the skills in another area of his life that could be applied here.
How many more analogies will it take til he rolls up his sleeves, opens his tool box of skills, and starts working?
Betsey, you are incredible! And an inspiration to us all...
Betsey, How are you not exhausted? It seems you're expected to be the fixer of all. The timing thing? Oh, it's just a silly excuse. I know you apologized for it, and I think you did the right thing by doing so, but honestly, Bets, he chose to read the letter. He had to have an inkling of what was going to be there, and he CHOSE to read it anyway. He could have handed it back and asked if it could wait, he could have put it aside until he was ready. He didn't.
My H says he's still bitter about all of the times I pushed conversations on him at the "wrong" time. Like you, if I waited for the "right" time, I would have never had a single conversation.
Now, before I need to talk, I say, "Is this a good time for you?" I don't think the answer has ever been "no."
It's not the timing, it is the fact that they have to deal with things that they don't want to deal with.
And, if ANYONE knows how to change that, well, you get the blue ribbon for the day.
WOW Betsy. Incredible. Well down for not exploding and throwing a fit. I got angry reading that and I'm an outsider. I guess that's one of the good things about a letter you can read it digest and then really think about it.
Quote: The fact is, I want something from you, and I want you to give it to me freely. I want you to initiate conversations like these with me so that you don't bottle your feelings indefinitely and so I don't have to break down in order for you to take my request seriously.
Wow how many of us have though or spoke these words. Like Pam said:
Quote: It's not the timing, it is the fact that they have to deal with things that they don't want to deal with.
My H gets so uneasy when I try to talk about feelings. And always finds a way to change the subject. I used to explode at this, now I just softly point out what he's doing and get back to the topic in hand.
I think you did wonderfully with your follow up conversations. You at least gave him something to think about. I loved the part about his father. You have a great insight into people.
You know what place you're at I hope MW can get there too and think of you soon
God bless
Always questioning???
Not always sad!!!
Joanne
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning. Albert Einstein
Betsey 
