I started developing this topic in a couple posts on EO's thread and I am starting this thread to avoid complete hijacking.
Here is my thought for the day.(I can only have thoughts since any hope for action is out of town with my H.) I feel like a large component of my high drive is due to the fact that for me sex is the only important "mating ritual". I am not very interested in romantic gestures like flowers, rings or mushy cards. I never fantasized my wedding growing up or got very excited about his and her monogrammed towels. I like it when my H says "I love you" but it doesn't mean much to me if he's not interested in me as a sexual partner.
Sex is very important to me. I don't like casual sex because I can only have fantastic sex with someone with whom I feel "mated". For me a sexless marriage is an oxymoron. I would have no sense of being married or "mated" to a man who didn't desire me sexually. Every time my H turns me down due to lack of desire or chooses porn over me it's as if he's erasing a line from my wedding vows. So, how do I proceed with integrity? Telling my H that I need to have sex 2x a week to be satisfied and asking him to initiate doesn't really speak to my integrity issue. Maybe I should just tell him that every time he turns me down or otherwise shows a lack of desire for me I feel less and less like I'm his wife. This is the truth and he can choose how to deal with it.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: Maybe I should just tell him that every time he turns me down or otherwise shows a lack of desire for me I feel less and less like I'm his wife. This is the truth and he can choose how to deal with it.
That sounds like an excellent start. Excellent topic, BTW! If I were you, I'd spend some time making sure he knows exactly what it will mean if you feel less and less like his wife. IOW, what will he experience as a result of that? It sounds to me like your Integrity issue here is around your H not only not turning you down, but also stepping up to the plate to initiate at least some of the time. Do I have that right? If so, you might think about making it a crucible issue - hand him the responsibility for initiating, and let him know in no uncertain terms that you expect him to initiate 'x' times per week. You will not nag him about it, but you will not be quietly accepting if he doesn't do it, even if you don't say anything. This should force him into a crucible, if I understand the process at all. Either that, or by his inaction he will be telling you volumes...
I'm sure you're looking for input from other women here, so I won't attempt to offer advice on how to deal with your H.
However, I suggest you start a M class for those with HDH and express your feelings about love, sex and M. After they empathize with you, you could then tell them that their HDH feel the same way exactly.
You'd save a lot of M for those who would hear you.
Quote: making sure he knows exactly what it will mean if you feel less and less like his wife. IOW, what will he experience as a result of that?
As I start feeling less like his wife due to his lack of desire the following willprobably occur.(Some of these have already at least partially occurred)
1)I will stop initiating sex with him.
2)I will become less emotionally available to him.
3) I will do things like cooking for him only out of a sense of duty or responsibility , not with love or a desire for his pleasure.
4)If his rejection or lack of interest continues long enough, I will feel myself to be "unmated" and will undoubtedly send out that "vibe" to interested men.
Quote: hand him the responsibility for initiating, and let him know in no uncertain terms that you expect him to initiate 'x' times per week.
I've pretty much done this already. He knows that if we don't have sex twice a week, I will be quite unhappy. I am just wondering if I should be more clear about just how unhappy I will be and just how "unmated" I will feel.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Mojo, I have to admit I'm feeling kind of confused. Please forgive me if I'm displaying my ignorance. The last few times you've posted about your sitch, it sounded to me like things were improving - you were ML more often, and the biggest issue was him being out of town. Did I miss something, or have I not been paying attention? Or is it just that you've gone through the "stage one" crucible, and "stage two" is now at hand?
Quote: He knows that if we don't have sex twice a week, I will be quite unhappy.
Granted. Were you very clear with him about how often you expect HIM to initiate? Your statement above doesn't say anything about who initiates. Is it understood that it's HIS responsibility, or is that not as clear?
I'm just thinking that it sounds like your main issue is wanting to be WANTED, and CHOSEN, and not feeling like you're getting those. So you would need to dialog with him about that, and let him know you expect him to show you these things. Sorry if I'm not being too helpful...
Quote: I'm just thinking that it sounds like your main issue is wanting to be WANTED, and CHOSEN, and not feeling like you're getting those. So you would need to dialog with him about that, and let him know you expect him to show you these things.
That is exactly right. Being wanted and chosen sexually is the main thing that makes me feel like I'm his wife or mate. Otherwise, I just feel like a good friend or an appreciated housekeeper or respected business partner etc. I don't know how to get into or out of this second crucible now that I've dealt with the frequency issue as the first.
Things are a lot better! Maybe I won't have to deal with this issue directly if he continues to initiate fairly regularly. It's just harder for me to define what would constitute unacceptable "mercy" sex since my H is a man. Can men actually do "mercy" sex and how would I know if he was?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I have noticed as we start to see some improvement, we tend to get all hyped up by the great interaction, and then the old fears, insecurities, struggles return. We want the good times to continue, for there to be permanent change, only to be faced with uncertainty. Mojo, you had a wonderful, incredible Memorial Day weekend and now the insecurities are returning... I am thinking that perhaps you can read your old posts for a "boost." Soothe and take good care of yourself, and "hold on" to your position with H in a firm and positive way. Continue to assert your needs with no apologies or great explanations, making it clear exactly what you are looking for in terms of initiation, frequency, etc. I myself feel like I am on such an emotional rollercoaster that this week I need to seek shelter in the " comfort cycle." Journey
Quote: Can men actually do "mercy" sex and how would I know if he was?
I'm sure we can, although I don't think I've ever been guilty, so I'm not quite sure of the mechanics. I think it would probably involve little or no kissing, and it might even involve the man laying back and saying "Okay, ML to me.", just the way a "cold" W would. He would still have to get an erection, of course, but that's not as hard as some people think. I think when there's not much intimacy (i.e. sex is in the dark, with eyes closed, and foreplay is perfunctory at best) then most sex is "mercy sex". That's why I'm now so unwilling to "do it in the dark" - I want to be able to KNOW if it's mercy sex or not... (yes, I'm aware that a woman can 'fake it' and the guy wouldn't even know it was mercy sex - I think men can also do this).
Quote: -------- Can men actually do "mercy" sex and how would I know if he was? --------
Yep, they can, and you wouldn't know unless he wanted you to. I assume it is the same way for the ladies.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I think of "mercy sex" as somehow coneying to your partner that you are really not into it...if you are going to "fake it", he has to be aware in some way that you are faking it.
