H called and the conversation went well. He was happy because he liked the poem I had given him as an anniversary card. He apologized for being a "basket case" and said he thought the distance between us was part of the problem. He said "It's easy for me to imagine the worst when I'm far away. If you can't touch it, you can't feel it." This gave me the perfect opportunity to say "That's how I feel when we don't have sex or cuddle. I guess I just need to be in touch more literally". He seemed to understand what I was saying. The rest of the conversation went well and he volunteered to take me to the theatre this weekend (but then he groaned when I said I wanted to see the musical version of The Graduate). Yay!
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
The Mom with the great breasts wrote: This gave me the perfect opportunity to say "That's how I feel when we don't have sex or cuddle. I guess I just need to be in touch more literally". _____________________________________
Excellent work there, Burka queen. You're really getting this PM stuff down.
The thing that I wonder about is how much of the poor interaction between my H and I is fusion and how much is just essential incompatibility. What I've started thinking about is how it seems like my H doesn't like me when I'm feeling strong or happy; he reads it as obnoxious or intimidating or superficial. I like to argue/debate and I like to be super enthusiastic about things and my H just isn't made to handle that. I think my H is happy that I might be medicated for ADD because it might make me a little less "larger than life" and this annoys me. Is it more differentiated for me to seek treatment or would it be more differentiated to decide that maybe I'm ok "hyper" and he just has to deal. I faced a similar problem regarding weight loss but that seemed less important. My weight isn't an essential part of my personality.
I'm also wondering about something else in PM. Schnarch says you always marry someone at the same level of differentiation as you. How can this always be true? What about people in arranged marriages? What about people like me who got married young and pregnant? Do you only become friends with or date or have sex with or love people at the same level of differentiation as you? People get married for a million different reasons.
Would I really be having these problems with anyone I married? Isn't there some guy out there who likes sex and debating every issue and being super-enthusiastic and therefore wouldn't find me too hard to handle? Isn't there some gentle, quiet LD woman who would appreciate my H's sensitivity and restraint?
It seems like things are really improving in our relationship. We're having more sex. We're talking more and being far more intimate in our conversations. So, why are my doubts becoming even more monumental?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Join the club... I'm trusting that it's normal for now...
Quote: What I've started thinking about is how it seems like my H doesn't like me when I'm feeling strong or happy; he reads it as obnoxious or intimidating or superficial.
Hmmm... that sounds an AWFUL lot like Scharch's description of "borrowed functioning"... when the one being borrowed against "does better", the one inflating their pseudo-self at the "expense" of the other doesn't do as well... could that be where this is coming from?
Quote: Schnarch says you always marry someone at the same level of differentiation as you. How can this always be true? What about people in arranged marriages?
I doubt that arranged marriages would qualify... Scharch is writing about (and observing) modern, "homemade" marriages...
Quote: What about people like me who got married young and pregnant?
I think that depends. If the woman got pregnant very early in the relationship, and "had to" get married, then this might be an exception to the rule, but I don't really know - I'm just guessing.
Quote: Do you only become friends with or date or have sex with or love people at the same level of differentiation as you?
No, but there's a natural selection process. Schnarch says that if the two people are not similarly differentiated, the relationship tends to break up quickly. However, I would think it would be possible for two delusional people to "force the issue" and get married despite misgivings they should have listened to...
Quote: Would I really be having these problems with anyone I married?
People generally get married not being "ready" for marriage - marriage makes you ready for marriage...
Quote: Isn't there some guy out there who likes sex and debating every issue and being super-enthusiastic and therefore wouldn't find me too hard to handle?
You might find him too hard to handle... you might CLASH instead of fitting together..
Quote: It seems like things are really improving in our relationship. We're having more sex. We're talking more and being far more intimate in our conversations. So, why are my doubts becoming even more monumental?
There are more issues than just sex. Maybe there are OTHER differentiation issues in your M... you might be encountering another layer of gridlock... Just some thoughts...
Hi Mojo, It sounds to me that you are just battle weary from the ongoing marital war. I think you should recharge your batteries and do something purely for yourself. Happy to hear that you do see progress! Journey...who is going to inflict a little marital sadism tonight by salivating over Brad Pitt in Troy.
I think I've had a major introspective breakthrough that has cleared up much of my confusion. My husband does loves me, he doesn't find me physically repulsive. The problem is my husband doesn't LIKE me!
This is partly due to his nature. He has a tendency towards depression and is quite misanthropic. There are a whole lot of people he likes even less than me. Sometimes he doesn't even like himself.
It is partly due to my nature. I am not always the most likable person. When I was reading CaDad's post the other day he described his wife as sweet. This is about the last word you could use to describe me. Cross off gentle, quiet, modest, restrained and sympathetic too. I am a good person and even a nice one, but I can't always express myself in some conventional ways my husband might prefer.
This theory explains so much. My H doesn't want to "come out and play" with me sexually because he just doesn't feel very friendly towards me much of the time and he's not HD enough to have sex with me when that is true. This is why I feel so uneasy around him much of the time. It's like I'm having to chant internal mantras like "Be nice. Be nice" or "Don't be a pest. Be cool" because I can sense my unpopularity with him. This is why he shuts me out conversationally and recreationally as well as sexually sometimes. This theory also explains why I've often been jealous of his male friends. It also explains why sometimes he uses porn rather than approaching me.
So where in Schnarchville do I go with this revelation. Clearly, my fusion issue with my H isn't so much "Love me,love me" or "Want me, Want me" but "Like me, Like me. Be my friend and come out to play!". So my differentiation exercise would be to become strong in my belief that I am likable? What are my integrity issues regarding this? How much of my personality am I willing or even capable of changing to be more likable?
I think I must be on to something with this theory because I suddenly have a real sense of relief, like I'm not just spinning my wheels anymore.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Mojo, be careful you're not over-thinking this stuff, and be careful not to spend too much time analyzing HIM. YOU take care of (and work on) YOU, and let HIM take care of HIM.
Quote: Clearly, my fusion issue with my H isn't so much "Love me,love me" or "Want me, Want me" but "Like me, Like me. Be my friend and come out to play!". So my differentiation exercise would be to become strong in my belief that I am likable?
Not sure about this, or at least about the way you've described it. You can't "get" your H to either LOVE you or LIKE you... he will or won't, does or doesn't, and THAT'S his bag, not yours. All you can do is a) find yourself, b) define yourself, and c) disclose yourself. Then be ready to d) hold onto yourself, because if you disclose anything very significant, it'll differ SO greatly from your H's distorted picture of you that he'll probably freak, and there'll be a great classic crucible moment...
I'm just having to clarify things for myself because sex isn't the only issue. I want more conversation and other sorts of personal interaction also.
I know I can't make my husband like me, but I can think about whether I really do make a pest of myself since that is what he seems to indicate. If I find that I believe that to be true, then maybe that is something I need to work on, in the same way I determined that my weight was something I wanted to work on for myself to some extent.
I need to start defining my goals for conversation and "date" type interactions as well as sex in my relationship. Maybe I'll even throw in a weekly minimum for cuddle time. That will be way harder for my H than the sex.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
You're really getting this PM stuff down.
