Thanks Tim - on my way over to Amazon to pick up a copy of that book - right after I change a daiper!
Jeff
"As soon as somebody falls in love, all the wits seem to dribble out the bottom of his head." Garion from Castle of Wizardry. And Jeff is obviously in love.
Really good sex, IME, has elements of fusion/boundarylessness to it. It does not denote a pathological state. Let's face it. Letting someone touch your genitals in ANY way is potentially a "boundary issue." There needs to be a distinction between letting down boundaries (appropriately, however it goes for you) in a sexual situation and not falling apart because you've given away your Self or lost your Self in the process. Anyway, I know the difference.
To me, sex without that cosmic fusing thing going on isn't all that fulfilling. Since my H and I do have incredible melding of bodies and minds when we do manage to get together, I can safely say that my own desire comes from wanting ALL of it, not just the mechanical, physical release. Otherwise, MB would be just fine.
That's what made me realize that, in trying to fix whatever is "wrong" with my marriage (you good people have made me feel that I'm in a very good marriage, just needs some attention) - I can focus on the sex, but it's equally possible I can focus on the R side of things.
My H just informed me that he really likes feeling sexy, being told he is sexy, prancing around showing his stuff, etc. I told him that, well, if he's going to enjoy THAT, he'd better find the time/energy to get it on, once in awhile. He was becoming the male equivalent of a prick tease, methinks. He was shocked (he actually sort of turned pale) when I pointed out it had been THREE WEEKS...anyway...it is very true that the LD spouse has a different take on time than the HD spouse.
My goal, from last week, was to lay low and put no pressure on him. After another week, he finally initiated! Yay !!! since it's nearly always me who initiates, it was marvelous for me not to be the "pushy" one. And afterwards, since we felt close, I was able to mention a few things I couldn't, before.
Which is why I'm insisting sex and R are completely intertwined. There are several things I"d like to say to this man, but can't, unless we feel close. When he avoids sex, he avoids that closeness too. Coincidence? Both the sexual desire and the desire to communicate about whatever (not all of it is negative or problematic communication, btw) are intertwined. Anyway, if we don't feel close, I feel less and less like complimenting him, etc., and then he gets all butt-hurt, and it just spirals out of control.
He had gotten into a habit of saying, "Not tonight, dear, too tired, tomorrow night for sure!" But tomorrow was taking 3 weeks or more. I told him I'd rather he simply not say the "tomorrow night for sure!" thing, but instead quietly think to himself, "I don't want sex tonight, maybe I'll want it in THREE WEEKS OR A MONTH!" Be honest, here!
He really freaked out and stopped and thought. Since, from his point of view it's never more than "one night" between our flirtations and our consummations, it's cool. When he faced the fact that "tomorrow" was stretching into weeks or even a month, he saw that was sort of false advertising. He saw immediately how it spoiled my anticipation of the whole event, which is like forgetting the icing on the cake.
So, we'll see. The really scary item on our R to-do list was manage to talk about this in some fashion, which we did (plus we had a really great time in bed, even though I was initially pouty and he had to be the One in Charge).
Anyway, I can now wear my sexy clothes and feel it's not "just for me and my differentiated self," thank you very much. (Give me a break here, sex with my own differentiated self is not the goal...not for me...) Don't rank on me, I know what PM is trying to say, I just think it's a hard concept to get across.
You're right about the different perception of frequency from the LD spouse. As I've mentioned before, I do keep score. I haven't done it in several years, but I have actually marked a calendar in the past. When the first C asked about our frequency I replied that I got a HJ about once a month (just after her P) and actually ML maybe twice a year. W didn't have numbers, but was incensed. She insisted that it was much more frequent. Two years of marked calendars proved that I was correct. But the thing that really hit me was that she really believed that we did it much more often than we really did. Can you really not even notice that you haven't had any kind of sexual encounter in over a month?
The frequency issue with LD people is truly baffling. I to have actually kept calanders on sex and affection. I will say this, the LD spouses are not even remotely close when they estimate frequency, and this obviously causes the problem. Why would they be sexual when they have the completely wrong perception of how often they do it. My question is, why do they not want to do it more, there is NOTHING better then sex, there is nothing that is even remotely close to sex, so why would one want to avoid the best thing in life?
In their world, the statement that there is nothing better than sex simply isn't true. I don't have anything to equate it to in order to come up with an analogy, but it's just not that important to them. They do it often enough to satisfy their needs, but since it isn't any big deal to them, and since their needs are being met, they don't give it a lot of thought. So when they're confronted with a statement like, "We only ML twice last year", they can't believe it's true. They know that they were never left wanting, so it just couldn't have been that low. They must have ML at least once a month.
I'm not sure I've really got an answer for this...but for my LDH...he simply didn't think about sex...until I continued to bring it up. Then he began to dwell on "why don't I think about it?" which only led to preoccupation on the subject, worry and insecurities. He truly had no idea that at one point it had been nearly a year since we last ML. I was climbing the walls and he was going on with life as though everything was completely normal. Then I believe it became an avoidance issue for him...he was ashamed, I believe the thought I saw him as less of a man...I didn't, I viewed it as "our" problem. My natural assumption was to think that he simply didn't find me attractive anymore.
I definitely agree with you on this... "LD spouses are not even remotely close when they estimate frequency" ...if you'd have asked my LDH how long it had been since we last ML hey may have said a month or two (which is still far too long in my book), not even realizing it had been nearly 12 months. He was very surprised in one of our C sessions that I was able to rattle off the exact date of the last time we ML (I keep a calendar too).
BTW I approached him for sex last night...and for once he said he was too tired (he was actually on his way to bed early), but for once not only did he respond with an answer to my request (which he used to just ignore me) but he made an appointment for tonight...I'm thinking this counseling thingie just may be working for him
Keeping my fingers crossed, but trying not to get my hopes up too high
Actually, yes...I have told my H that I keep a calendar. I told him I wanted to make sure I wasn't way off base on the frequency myself. He seemed okay with that. Of course not a lot rattles my spouse...except for the possibility of me leaving. That's what's kicked him into taking action finally and agreeing to counseling.
I produced mine for the C. W wasn't happy. She wasn't happy that I kept a calendar, and was even more unhappy that I produced it to prove my version of the frequency of our LM. But now there's no doubt that she knows I have one. And since she saw the facts in black and white, she's never contested any of my assertions about frequency.
