Quote: She learned to live independently and so did I (comprimised my own integrity). Our domestic enterprise was/is very efficient because we compliment(ed) each other perfectly in our home roles.
It's interesting how this being true can actually deaden the passion in your relationship. My H and I rarely fight about money or division of household labor and we both have hobbies we love but don't share. But it's kind of confusing because it also seems like it should be a critical step towards differentiation.
Quote: She even asked her gyno who asked "can you O?". W said "yes" Gyno: "Then you don't have a problem".
She needs a new doctor!
I think you and I are similar in some ways, Dave. I am a very project oriented person and this is one of the reasons I've been able to "ignore" our sex problems for so long. I would take a promotion at work, start a business, dig a 20 ft. perennial bed, read tthe top 100 novels of the century, try to develop a non-arbitrary number system etc. and be able to put sex on the back burner for a while.
This was probably unfair to our spouses because it seemed to them that everything was OK and then we're suddenly upset about sex again. Really it was never OK and we were just doing a good job of distracting ourselves.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Tonight is the first PM "Review" Session (aka The PM Bible Study). I started re-reading up to the pages that my W is at. I'm underlining different ideas now. It's interesting because I see traces of where, in my first reading, I was underlining passages that I thought applied to my W. I am going to make a rule that our discussions speak to our own insights and not to our assumptions about our spouse's issues. This might be hard, but heck, we might as well give it a shot.
I'll keep you folks posted on the progress. It would be cool to do the whole book, but I would be surprised if we could stick with it that long. Even 4 weeks of it would have a tremendous value.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Hi Dave... I am new here and find it encouraging how you and wife are " on the same page" so to speak. My last nite's drama: Hubby: (comes over to me in bed)..."What are you reading?" Me: Shows him PM book Hubby: "Looks boring" Me: Stays calm, does not get upset, smiles and continues to read
Journey... who has decided to move from lurker status
1. Week In Review Each person talks about how they felt as an individual, then how the felt towards the other person.
2. PM Discussion Simply go though and share any passages that had individual meaning to us.
We both had fine weeks individually and towards each other. I spoke to the fact that my W's period made things difficult but that I appreciated the little ways she worked around it. She said she has been fine with things this past week too.
For PM, W didn't have anything prepared like I did and she simply spoke to the fact that "so far, the book makes sense". I told her the rule about not using passages to analyze each other. So I simply went through and shared some of the lines that spoke to me. This allowed me to elaborate on certain things, thus provide an opportunity to practice HOM. The first 40 pages gave me a chance to repeat the idea that my recent encounters with her have had a new emotional element because PM taught me to remove the cloud of horniness, anxiety control, and validation from LM sessions...this leaves only the emotional connection and has boosted my feelings for my W in ways I've never experienced before. I used a recent session as an example of this. I told her how I would like to have all times be like that and she got a little bit confused thinking that I was imposing a "high standard" or injecting "pressure" due to a goal. I had to explain that it's nothing to do with the mechanics in the bedroom but rather the mentality and that she doesn't have to do anything different and is not responsible for making or breaking the experience. In other words, I was professing to her that I want to ML to "her"...not just ML. I even assured her that this wouldn't dictate style...that we could have sweet sex, animal sex, laughing sex, fun sex and it would be good.
She didn't really "engage" heavily in the discussion which is typical for her. I think she got the point of *what* I was saying, but she seemed to only speak to the fact that she feels more willing to meet my desires. Granted, that's a big step in the right direction. I didn't try to pummel her with my point (because she hasn't read the whole thing like I have), but I started introducing the idea of sexual potential.
I think she *knows* that this process is not just about "increasing frequency" but isn't exactly on board with it yet. I think the length and complexity of PM will give us (her especially) lots of time to acclimate to the more advanced ideas.
At the end of our talk, I asked if she had any other ideas regarding the format of our Monday Night Therapy Session and she said that she thought it was fine and offered no comments about how we could make the session better. Next session, I'm just going to bring notes because right now I just thought of some things that I missed.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: I told her how I would like to have all times be like that and she got a little bit confused thinking that I was imposing a "high standard" or injecting "pressure" due to a goal.
Dave, that's almost EXACTLY what my W said during our "failed" session Sunday night... unfortunately I wasn't able to handle it as well as you did. I lost my ability to self-soothe and HOM...
Quote: I think she *knows* that this process is not just about "increasing frequency" but isn't exactly on board with it yet.
Again, same here, but W has some misunderstandings about what I'm expecting that are getting in the way at the moment. Also, I think I'm not as far along with differentiation as I'd hoped I was, because she STILL has too much control over my feelings...
Hey inherjourney (cool name). Welcome to non-lurker status. Just a recommendation...start your own post introducing yourself and your situation. It's always nice to see new people here, although not necessarily nice that you're in an SSM.
Hope to hear more about you
Hairdog - the unofficial SSM greeter, kind of like those people in WalMart, except not as old, and not willing to work for a company like WalMart.
Wow!!! I feel honored to have my thread bring you out.
I will say that I had to do a bit of "ground work" first on myself by reading PM, practicing differentiation, HOM, and asserting my desires. I had to "shake the ground" under my W's wall a couple times to loosen up the mortar. This included a discussion about her "choices" and their affect. It also involved me bringing her to a counsellor who recommended PM.
I feel that we are no longer in the danger zone but I'm very hesitant to say we are "secure", maybe "stable" but not yet "secure". I have yet to have my W come in and say "I really want to go upstairs with you". She's made "initiations" based upon a "frequency" that I desire. For example, she recently said "I would like to fulfill 1/2 of this week's quota". I'm certain that this is simply a way to avoid being too vulnerable.
It's hard for me to accept that she doesn't have the desire to truly initiate...but heck, I sometimes have a hard time initiating too because it's a vulnerable position. Maybe it's not a desire thing at all but simply time and trust. Secondly, I shouldn't worry about "her desire" because that measurement doesn't serve any purpose other than my "other-validated sense of self". I should only pay attention to what I want to share with her, assert myself, and enjoy whatever she decides to bring to the bedroom.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Dave, I can guarantee you that her lameo initiations have nothing to do with desire, but like you said, have more to do with not wanting to put herself out there.
For some people initiating is nearly impossible. It is difficult for me, but not impossible. My sister in law, for example, has flat out said that she will NEVER initiate and that she could not stand the thought of being rejected, etc, so her husband will have to "get used to it". He is constantly bugging her for sex so the thought that she would be rejected is ludicrous but this fear is so strong that she has talked herself out of ever initiating, for the rest of their married life.
I'm sure your wife is just scared to show that side of herself to you, for many reasons. Are you okay with her doing things like lighting a candle in the bedroom to signal that it's Love Night? Things like that seem much more 'safe' to a person who is scared to death of putting their neck on the line.
Wow, honey...in your reference to the candle, were you referring back to my recap of our recent encounter? She actually did light the candle. As a matter of fact, she initiated (in a lame-o way) by bringing the topic up in the first place. Last Sat, I didn't bring up the topic of a LM session once though the circumstances (D5 at a sleepover) made it obvious that I would. She started the convo with "I'm sure you want to have some 'bedtime' tonight....". She basically pushed it to me. This is something that might be interesting to work on in the future because I would really like her to "try" sometime to initiate like a mature adult.
Thanks HP for showing my to pay more attention to the "little" things.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
