It sounds like the poop is hitting the fan today with a lot of folks and it's making me feel odd .
Re: Hugging Til Relaxed Until I read about Mojo's H turning it into sex to end it because the intimacy was too much to handle, I didn't really "get it". In all honesty, I was never interested in HTR until Tim mentioned that it can cause more intimacy than sex but I finally think it might be good for us. Actually, I might find myself a little fearful of intimacy...who knows. Who knows...we'll get there in the book. BTW. W was reading PM last night. Probably not too far into yet.
Re: Initiation This is starting to bother me more and more. In the past, we argued about sex and W would always refer to the fact that I never came to bed with her (for the first 10 years) as an obvious reason why I would miss out on her "horny times". Since Jan, when she indicated that we needed a little more physicality, I've made it a point to be in bed with her every night. Within the past 5 months, she has never initiated anything. Maybe the point to her argument was more metaphorical...she was saying that I was "distant" therefore she didn't want to ML with me. But now she is saying that my involvement in the family and her has made all the difference. So along with her telling me that she is "satisfied", I'm also in the bed now...and still no initiation or sign of spontaneous horniness. I know that our results have looked promising but this is starting to irritate me. I might just be catching the anxiety of others on this topic (which happens here sometimes). I guess I'm wondering if I should ever call her out on this, or just keep being satisfied with the fact that she's basically meeting my minimum desires (per my requests). I understand that the closer we get, the more differentiated I need to be. This might be a "point" to push. Aw heck, I don't know.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
None of us do, Dave, none of us do. From my POV, I don't think I'd be "satisfied" too long with W meeting my "minimum desires"... I want to explore our POTENTIAL! Potential lies at the opposite end of the spectrum. So for me, meeting the minimums wouldn't get us there. I also don't really know what my minimums are... we've been operating so far below that for so long, almost any improvement would be huge. I think the key is to make gains in the growth cycle, then fall back into the comfort cycle for a time, then push into the growth cycle again. You can't get there all at once, but it's an ongoing process, and the next crucible will never be all that far away, but I think they get less intense and easier to enter as time goes on. At least that's what the book says... So for me, I think the first plan would be to get to a point where we're ML fairly regularly, get comfortable with that for a time, then set a boundary around initiation. Once that is established, then set a boundary around variety and experimentation. Eventually we'd get around to getting a Liberator set...
Dave, I know that the poop is catching; I've been that way myself at times. Sorry if my poop slinging has you down, buddy.
Here are my thoughts re: initiation. This is something that you have requested of W, and has nothing to do with what we are currently talking about on the board. If she is not following through, or even offering why she isn't following through, then I would say that it is perfectly acceptable to question her on it.
Of course, you MUST count her lame-o initiations, even if they were lacking in your eyes. If she has done ANY regular initiating at all since you have had this conversation then I would let it drop and let her improve her skills as she gets more comfortable. If all she is doing is making herself available after she had agreed to initiate, then yes I would bring it up and ask her what's going on. Good luck!
You actually are correct about her lame-o initiations...she's actually made a few. Tim's post made lots of sense and made me realize that I don't need to be going so fast. Heck, she's reading PM, ML a bit with (lame-o) initiation occasionally and seems to be making improvements. I think the next "topic" for us will be the 2 books on technique before we get into the "initiation" thing. I think that she will be a little more comfortable initiating if she feels confident in her ability to ML like a pro.
The whole initiating thing is a so weird and makes for some really bad feelings towards your spouse. I know it may appear that we seem selfish for wanting sex but sex is not exactly a bad thing. On the other hand, they are selfish for offloading the vulnerable feelings to us, avoiding the potential for rejection while subsequently rejecting us. They are making us hold onto a stink bomb then are repeatedly lighting the fuse and running away.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
I'm curious. How would you like her to initiate sex?
This whole initiation discussion is starting to seem "lame-o" to me for the following reason. If any HD man on this board was alone on a desert island with any HD woman on this board, I'm sure who initiated what wouldn't be much of a topic for discussion. There would be some level of mutuality. The following discussion would never occur.
HD: HP, you initiated sex last night by wearing that sexy grass skirt so today you have to clean out the fish pot.
HP: No HD, you initiated sex last night by telling me I should have cut the grass shorter. Besides, as I recall we decided that the one who didn't initiate the sex was the one who had to clean out the fish pot.
HP and HD: This is too confusing. Let's just f**k and let the birds clean out the fish pot.
DISCLAIMER The HP and HD used in the above example are works of fiction and in no way represent any actual participants in this message board.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
To answer your question how I would like my W to initiate, I will put it into a very reasonable context of a typical night.
Scenario 1. W sitting on the sofa watching TV with me nearby. She teases and flirts by twirling her hair, fidgeting, licking her lips subtly etc. but stops when I start to really notice. She playfully repeats this for a few minutes but finally, she turns off the tv, gives me a coy smile and invites me next to her where she grabs my hair pulls my ear (which is of course attached to my head) next to her mouth and says "take me upstairs".
Scenario 2. I give her a big hug and she doesn't let go. I then give her a kiss and she reciprocates and turns up the passion in it. Then a slight grope and then takes my hand and says "come on..." and leads me up to the bedroom.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: She teases and flirts by twirling her hair, fidgeting, licking her lips subtly etc. but stops when I start to really notice... I give her a big hug and she doesn't let go
If I did either of these things my H would just find it annoying.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: The HP and HD used in the above example are works of fiction and in no way represent any actual participants in this message board.
Honey, I think they're on to us.
No one seemed to catch on that my W actually went to St. Louis today. I think she was going to kick Honey's ass. Now I know why we're going to Georgia. Next stop, Dave's ass-kicking. Then, it's north to Canada. Then, England. Then, to whatever star-system Scott is in, then back home to Mojo's. There won't be any HDs left in the world pretty soon.
Hairdog - any similarity between Hairdog and a man with attached testicles is purely coincidental.
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