Had a nice afternoon with S13 yesterday. Took him on a shopping spree to spend the money he got for his middle school "graduation." (I had to help him out with a little bit extra to get everything he wanted).
Although he is young man of today, he shares with me a love for old school, physical entertainment media. He especially likes record albums and books (the paper kind).
Of course, he streams media like most today, but he gets satisfaction from putting on an actual LP record or reading a physical book rather than an ebook. His favorite genre in both books and movies is horror.
Spent a little time last night working on separating and sorting my own huge library of stuff in the basement "man cave." The room this is in will be renovated at some point. Will be throwing some stuff out and giving some away. Perhaps I'll be around to see that renovation happen, but at this point, I'm framing this as preparation for an eventual move out. I put on some music while doing it (the first music I've played outside of my car in weeks). Found it satisfying.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
So we are at the point where W wants to tell the boys. S13 will be out until this evening, so she wants to take the opportunity to tell S17 first, possibly since the two of them may react differently.
She brought up the "Daddy and I have decided..." or "Daddy and I are going to..." options, and I said I did not favor that, as this was her decision, not mine.
It looks like we are going to basically say, "We are separating" and handle their questions from there.
She brought up the letter I received from her lawyer on Friday. She said she was unaware that it would say, "Have your lawyer contact us within five business days." She thought it was going to say something along the lines of, "We are your wife's firm. Please call us." She seemed disappointed that I took money from our account to retain a lawyer.
She wants to handle this out of court, which I agree with, but she also wants to do it with only one lawyer--hers. I told her that my rights must be protected.
We briefly got onto the subject of therapists/counseling. She mentioned her ongoing therapy but did not go into details. I stated that I was dealing with a therapist online (true; I am not referring to this site). I said the perspective I had received was that in issues of disconnection such as we have experienced, divorce should not be the default option. There are other ways out that are better. She replied, "I understand" but did not go further than that.
There were other things on my mind, and she could tell. I was thinking about why I wanted to save our marriage, and making clear that my reasons are based on my ideals. They are not based on fear of the legal aspects of this. And I was thinking about the possibility of OM in the picture but thought bringing those things up now would not be productive.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
She said she was unaware that it would say, "Have your lawyer contact us within five business days."
From my experience, there is always a deadline during the legal negotiation.
Even after the legal, I kept the "template" used for negotiation. I end most negations with a deadline for her to respond. Watch and learn how the lawyers negotiate. Not too hard to pick up patterns and use them later.
Originally Posted by Sunflyer
There were other things on my mind, and she could tell. I was thinking about why I wanted to save our marriage, and making clear that my reasons are based on my ideals. They are not based on fear of the legal aspects of this. And I was thinking about the possibility of OM in the picture but thought bringing those things up now would not be productive.
Correct, there is no way to talk your way out of this. The less you say the better.
Your behavior during this is one of the important factors. New more attractive behaviors are key. Only you can figure out which behaviors to drop and which new ones to add. Hardest thing to do is change ourselves. Especially at our ages.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
The boys have been told; followed the plan as stated above. They handled it well. Somewhat surprisingly, I'd say my younger son handled it better than I expected. He seemed very matter-of-fact, as if to say this is something that happens in life. Afterward, he said "I love you both" and hugged both of us.
S17 seemed more surprised. His eyes were wandering a bit nervously at first, as if to express, "What is going on here?" W gave her typical "It's going to be a little different, but we are still a family" speech which to me is whitewashing and nonsensical (sorry). I don't know if son saw me roll my eyes when that started.
S17 is spending the next couple of days up at college for the first part of orientation. He went with his friend, and friend's mother is driving them up there.
S13 so far is his usual self. Still playing his video games, still hanging out with friends. Picked him up today and he asked me to take him to McDonald's and get him something, which I did.
W was out during the afternoon for a doctor's appointment and with parents. Her mood seems a little different the last couple of days. A bit more sullen, and she isn't even joking around with the boys as much as usual.
Plans for tomorrow to spend some time outdoors, visit with sister, have lunch at her apartment. Should be a nice day.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
W asked to have a talk tonight. It always starts with, "Can we talk?" She actually walked into the kitchen while I was fixing dinner for myself and said, "I don't know if you want to talk while you eat." I told her no, I didn't wish to do that. I don't know why she thinks I would want to spend time talking about our breakup while I am attempting to enjoy food, but whatever.
Her main intention was to start talking about proposals. Most of what she suggested was along the lines of what I already knew was coming: no spousal maintenance to be sought, intends to buy me out on the house (or, more accurately, to have her parents buy me out), general discussion of child support, etc.
She wants support to continue beyond the legal age required by the state, particularly if either boy is still in college. I am not sure what to think of this. Obviously, I want to support the boys, and accept that I will be helping out for as long as I can, because that's what parents do. But I am not sure if I am on board if she wants to formalize an agreement that says something like "full support payments to continue until completion of graduate school" or something along those lines.
Then she went off on a long, angry tirade directed at my older sister (completely unprompted by me). My older sister is far from perfect but is pretty much the only sympathetic ear I have right now. She is upset at W for basically the same reasons as myself, and for giving up on the marriage. W expressed disappointment that my sister has not texted, called, or otherwise contacted her in the aftermath of her surgery. Said that all she did was send a "b******t get well card" which W said she tossed in the trash. Said that sister has been cold to her, despite the fact that W frequently received requests for help from my sister whenever she needed it in the past. Said she has always treated my sister well, and that my sister "has no idea what I have been going through" in the marriage.
(At this point, my head was reeling with irony, since I have not received a single supportive message from even one member of her family, despite never treating any of them badly, since this whole fiasco began. But I held my tongue on that).
She then repeatedly pressed me to tell her why my sister was treating her this way. Without apologizing for sister's behavior, I said that she was upset and that I didn't think it would be productive to go further than that at this time. W kept asking me, and I kept giving the same response, which exasperated her. At one point, she asked, "Does she think I am a bad mother?" which, of course, is ridiculous as her parenting skills have never come up.
My reason for not talking about this further is that it is impossible to do so without resurrecting our opposing views of the marriage, and will result in W stating once again how much suffering and pain she has gone through (all due to me, of course), and that we just don't understand her.
Me 59 W 47 T 26 M 23 S18, S14 BD May 2023 D filed June 2023 OM1 confirmed: December 2023 OM2 confirmed: October 2023
W asked to have a talk tonight. It always starts with, "Can we talk?" She actually walked into the kitchen while I was fixing dinner for myself and said, "I don't know if you want to talk while you eat." I told her no, I didn't wish to do that. I don't know why she thinks I would want to spend time talking about our breakup while I am attempting to enjoy food, but whatever.
Her main intention was to start talking about proposals. Most of what she suggested was along the lines of what I already knew was coming: no spousal maintenance to be sought, intends to buy me out on the house (or, more accurately, to have her parents buy me out), general discussion of child support, etc.
She wants support to continue beyond the legal age required by the state, particularly if either boy is still in college. I am not sure what to think of this. Obviously, I want to support the boys, and accept that I will be helping out for as long as I can, because that's what parents do. But I am not sure if I am on board if she wants to formalize an agreement that says something like "full support payments to continue until completion of graduate school" or something along those lines.
Then she went off on a long, angry tirade directed at my older sister (completely unprompted by me). My older sister is far from perfect but is pretty much the only sympathetic ear I have right now. She is upset at W for basically the same reasons as myself, and for giving up on the marriage. W expressed disappointment that my sister has not texted, called, or otherwise contacted her in the aftermath of her surgery. Said that all she did was send a "b******t get well card" which W said she tossed in the trash. Said that sister has been cold to her, despite the fact that W frequently received requests for help from my sister whenever she needed it in the past. Said she has always treated my sister well, and that my sister "has no idea what I have been going through" in the marriage.
(At this point, my head was reeling with irony, since I have not received a single supportive message from even one member of her family, despite never treating any of them badly, since this whole fiasco began. But I held my tongue on that).
She then repeatedly pressed me to tell her why my sister was treating her this way. Without apologizing for sister's behavior, I said that she was upset and that I didn't think it would be productive to go further than that at this time. W kept asking me, and I kept giving the same response, which exasperated her. At one point, she asked, "Does she think I am a bad mother?" which, of course, is ridiculous as her parenting skills have never come up.
My reason for not talking about this further is that it is impossible to do so without resurrecting our opposing views of the marriage, and will result in W stating once again how much suffering and pain she has gone through (all due to me, of course), and that we just don't understand her.
What a disaster.
Her: “Can we talk?” You: “I’m cooking my dinner, and then I’m going out to see a friend/to the gym/for a run.”
That’s it 🤷♂️
Every time you engage, you lose. You can never say the right thing. No-one on DB.com can teach you what to say, how to “win” these conversations or what are the “right things” to say to get your spouse back. It can’t be done.
If they say “I feel like…” you say “okay, it sounds like you’re feeling…” and then you leave. Validate and leave.
If they ask for a conversation or interaction, the answer should always be “I have plans”.
Her: “Can we talk?” You: “I’m cooking my dinner, and then I’m going out to see a friend/to the gym/for a run.”
That’s it 🤷♂️
Every time you engage, you lose. You can never say the right thing. No-one on DB.com can teach you what to say, how to “win” these conversations or what are the “right things” to say to get your spouse back. It can’t be done.
If they say “I feel like…” you say “okay, it sounds like you’re feeling…” and then you leave. Validate and leave.
If they ask for a conversation or interaction, the answer should always be “I have plans”.
IE: STFUGAL.
This is definitely an important behavior change for the men here.
While married, you most likely learned some very unattractive behaviors to "keep the peace". I sure did. Gaining respect is a skill that should now be at the top of your list. Confidently walking away from her to do your thing. Stay in your frame. Be the most interesting guy while you are out and about. Do not be afraid to interact with women. Hold your boundaries. The list goes on and on. Come up with your own list.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
